Stephanie Shanks, Steph Shanks Photography

[00:00:00] Sanjay Parekh: Welcome to the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast, powered by Hiscox. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. Throughout my career, I've had side hustles, some of which have turned into real businesses. But first and foremost, I'm a serial technology entrepreneur. In the creator space, we hear plenty of advice on how to hustle harder and why you can sleep when you're dead.

[00:00:21] On this show, we ask new questions in hopes of getting new answers. Questions like, how can small businesses work smarter? How do you achieve balance between work and family? How can we redefine success in our businesses so that we don't burn out after year three? Every week, I sit down with business founders at various stages of their side hustle to small business journey.

[00:00:42] These entrepreneurs are pushing the envelope while keeping their values. Keep listening for conversation, context, and camaraderie. Today's guest is Stephanie Shanks, a portrait photographer based in Baraboo, Wisconsin.

[00:01:01] While she captures everything from senior portraits to family photos, her main goal is to help women conquer self-image and aging fears by capturing their true strength and beauty in portraits that inspire confidence. Stephanie, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:14] Stephanie Shanks: Thanks so much for having me, Sanjay. 

[00:01:16] Sanjay Parekh: So, I'm excited to have you on because hopefully I'm going to get some photography tips from you at some point here, because I don't know if my pictures of people are always the best, but before we get into photography tips, because that's actually not what this podcast is about.

[00:01:29] Give us a little bit about your background and what got you to where you are today. 

[00:01:34] Stephanie Shanks: Well, I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit, and it came from a long line of farmers and my grandparents owned a grocery store. So, it's always been kind of in my blood. Even as a kid, I would buy cattle and sell them because I lived on a farm. 

[00:01:55] My first job was a massage therapist, and I had my own — I rented a space and grew my client's health through that. And photography just kind of came about when my youngest son was born. And I just started taking pictures and posting them on Facebook. And soon after that, people started asking me to take pictures of their kids.

[00:02:15] Sanjay Parekh: Oh, that's awesome. Okay. I got to ask about trading cattle as a kid because that's, that is a side hustle that I don't think I've ever heard especially on this podcast or actually ever. I don't believe so. How, just how, I don't even know if I have a question. I'm just going to ask how. 

[00:02:33] Stephanie Shanks: Okay. So, you have to have a little bit of capital.

[00:02:38] Sanjay Parekh: How much is a little bit?

[00:02:39] Stephanie Shanks: Oh gosh. A couple hundred bucks. 

[00:02:41] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. A couple hundred bucks. Okay. 

[00:02:43] Stephanie Shanks: You have to and then you go to auctions and buy cattle so you get to pick out the one you want. You know my dad had, they have, a cattle farm. So, the trailer was there. The space you need space, right? 

[00:02:59] So yeah, it was really a fun experience. My dad would help me pick out the cattle that he thought would look good.

[00:03:05] And I did pigs too.

[00:03:11] Sanjay Parekh: That's a natural extended business extension from starting with cattle. Then you of course go into pigs. 

[00:03:16] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. And I would show them at the County fair. 

[00:03:20] And I would do really well. So, there would be people at the end. We do an auction, and different people would buy the animal, and you would get paid for that animal.

[00:03:29] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. So, basically what you're doing is an arbitrage business, right? You're buying it at one price. You're selling for more. It’s something that we've actually talked about on this podcast before. A lot of people that are entrepreneurs have done this. But with candy bars selling to their classmates in school. You use livestock.

[00:03:48] Okay. So, how did that work? Like, why were the people that were buying it for you? So like, I understand the candy bar business, right? I bought it. And then these kids, their parents wouldn't buy them candy bars or they didn't have access to the candy bars. And that's how I was able to sell it for more to them.

[00:04:04] But livestock, like these people could go to the auction themselves. Why were they not? Why were you able to arbitrage against those two places? 

[00:04:12] Stephanie Shanks: I think the whole idea of the auction that I would sell my animals at is the quality of the meat that they would get. So, you can imagine an animal that for the last year has been pampered and pet and taken care of.

[00:04:29] I mean, the quality of that animal versus your a random livestock is completely different. And it's really good for the community and the kids and sports farmers. So, I think that's where it all, the whole reason behind it. 

[00:04:43] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. So, so unlike me and all of us that did candy bars, and I don't know if you did candy bars too, but our, our cycle time with our inventory was pretty short, right?

[00:04:53] You buy one day, you sell the next kind of thing. You actually had to spend time with this livestock for a year. Is that generally what you held on to him for? 

[00:05:03] Stephanie Shanks: About, yeah, seven, eight months, something like that. It was a fall to summer thing. 

[00:05:08] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. Okay. So there's a, there's a lot of work that goes into that too, over the year.

[00:05:13] So that's. It's not just an arbitrage business. It's actually putting work into. 

[00:05:17] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. It's not flipping, but it's it definitely paid for a couple of years of college and skis and snowboards and all the things that I wanted at that young age. 

[00:05:32] Sanjay Parekh: I think you kind of hit upon a show that I think I would be fascinated to watch, like Animal Flippers.

[00:05:38] Like, is that a thing? Maybe somebody should make that a thing. 

[00:05:41] Stephanie Shanks: That's what farmers, a lot of farmers do. So yeah. 

[00:05:44] Sanjay Parekh: Animal Flippers. I think that's a great name for a show right there. That's not something I'm going to do, but somebody out there should maybe do that. Okay. So, you kind of mentioned how you got started in this business.

[00:05:56] You started taking pictures of your own kid and then people started asking you for doing that kind of for them. How did you get started in that for yourself? Was it just like with a regular camera, like a phone? Like how did you start taking pictures and, and then how did that develop for you? 

[00:06:14] Stephanie Shanks: I always was the girl in school that had a camera, like a real camera. Yeah, a real camera I mean just the little clicks and then you go and…

[00:06:25] Sanjay Parekh: You get it developed. 

[00:06:26] Stephanie Shanks: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:06:27] Sanjay Parekh: Oh, the old days. The good old days of no instant gratification. You actually had to hope you did it well. 

[00:06:34] Stephanie Shanks: Exactly. 

[00:06:35] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, so, you started, so you had a real camera then starting this was, I'm assuming, the digital days when you started this because you were posting online. 

[00:06:43] And so then these people started coming to you. At what point did you realize that, wait a minute, this is a business. Like I should do this for real. 

[00:06:54] Stephanie Shanks: It was a process. First off, when people started asking me to take pictures, I had no idea what to charge. I had no idea what I was really doing.

[00:07:03] I was just doing it because people told me I was good at it. Of course. And within the first year, someone took me to the Bahamas for a wedding and I went to Arizona for a wedding. Wedding photography is a super easy thing to get into for photographers starting out. And then so a little back, quick backstory.

[00:07:28] I have a son who has cerebral palsy. He's in a wheelchair. And at that time, we were going through budget cuts at school. So, I couldn't, he couldn't go on field trips without me being there and cause I needed extra help. All this stuff was happening, and I found myself calling in sick to work a lot cause at this point I had a regular job and it was stressing me out so much.

[00:07:51] I knew there had to be another way. 

[00:07:54] Sanjay Parekh: So that was the point then that you kind of went full time into this or like that was the catalyst. Okay. 

[00:08:01] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah, I was stressed out beyond belief, crying all the time. I just didn't, I don't feel like I had an option at that point. So, photography was the next step.

[00:08:14] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So, here's then, and I think particularly for you, potentially a challenge, but I think this exists for everybody is like making that transition. Probably one of the hardest things is insurance and health insurance. Like how did you manage that? Because obviously you have a child that can't go without health insurance.

[00:08:32] Like you need coverage. And when you have a paying job, like you've got that umbrella there. So how did you manage that part? Which I feel like is maybe the more difficult issue there that you had. 

[00:08:44] Stephanie Shanks: Well, because of my job as a massage therapist, health insurance was never an option anyways. So that's always been something that I've had to pay out of pocket.

[00:08:51] Sanjay Parekh: Oh, wow. Okay. So, it wasn't like you were giving up anything at that point. 

[00:08:57] Stephanie Shanks: No, just the security of the job. 

[00:08:59] Sanjay Parekh: Right. Of the steady paycheck. Okay. So, that is a very different catalyst than a lot of people. So, as you got started, then how did you kind of figure this out for yourself? And you mentioned one of the things like, how do you charge for it?

[00:09:17] And like, what do you charge for it? How did you start? In terms of asking for money. And when did you figure out that was not the right amount or was it the right amount right out of the gate? 

[00:09:27] Stephanie Shanks: I did what probably everybody does is I looked at what other people were charging and decided to go that route.

[00:09:36] Not realizing that, all you want to do is get clients. So, to me, to get clients, you charge a small amount. That's the exact wrong way to go about getting clients. I got clients, but they weren't, they weren't great clients. They took advantage of me because I let them. They would show up late.

[00:10:05] They wouldn't show up at all. They would call me yeah, no boundaries whatsoever. 

[00:10:13] Sanjay Parekh: I think that's one of the things, right? Like when you're a value price business basically a commodity business, like people treat you as such, right? It's not a relationship. And you tend to get honestly bad clients, right?

[00:10:28] So how did you break yourself out of that? That kind of doom loop, because a lot of people are in that, right? Like you get scared of raising prices because you're afraid the clients are going to disappear and go away and then you're going to have nothing. So how did you break yourself free from that?

[00:10:44] Stephanie Shanks: I ended up getting a business coach. Walked me through it. I got into an accountability group, and this was in 2020. So, for a long time I was doing that that business of comparing my pricing. When I saw what other women photographers were making, it really helped me get over that hump of being like "Oh my gosh, no one is going to pay me This is crazy, it was really scary.

[00:11:21] Sanjay Parekh: How much of a difference are we talking about? On one client?

[00:11:25] What were you charging, what could you charge? What was the delta there? 

[00:11:29] Stephanie Shanks: So, 300 to 3000. 

[00:11:36] Sanjay Parekh: That's a big delta. 

[00:11:38] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. So that's 10 clients to one client. So, the idea of having to struggle to find 10 clients or finding one. 

[00:11:49] Sanjay Parekh: Right. And, and also the, probably then the amount of time and effort you can put into that client, the quality is probably a lot greater than as well. Right? 

[00:11:57] Stephanie Shanks: Absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:11:59] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Wow. That is, that is huge. That was not the number I was expecting you to say. I was thinking three times, four times, maybe not 10 times. 

[00:12:08] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. And I'm at the low end, for the business structure that I'm in. There are women that are, and men too, that are making 10, 10 grand plus on, on portrait sessions.

[00:12:20] And people are happy to pay it because of the quality that they get. 

[00:12:26] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox, committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, business insurance experts.

[00:12:47] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. So, you had been a side hustler but it sounds like this might've been the first time you had your own business. Was there anything that made you nervous about making this jump? 

[00:13:01] Stephanie Shanks: Absolutely. I was, I thought everyone was going to hate me when you're value based for so long and all of a sudden you have to tell your clients, wait a minute. I'm charging this much. I did. I was so afraid that people were going to be mad at me. And so that accountability group and the business plan was huge for me. 

[00:13:25] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. When you made that jump up in prices, was it like an overnight thing? Did you just go like, okay, well now today my prices are this, or did you like ease your way into it?

[00:13:34] Stephanie Shanks: No, you can't go back and forth with that. You know? Of course I wanted to, with my older clients. I wanted to, there was like a little bit of a discount that I gave at first, but yeah, no, I just went full into it. 

[00:13:50] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Interesting. And, and was there any blowback? Like, did anybody have.

[00:13:55] I'm sure some people had an issue. What, what was the feedback? 

[00:13:59] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah, I lost clients. 

[00:14:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. 

[00:14:01] Stephanie Shanks: I gained clients though. The first month I grossed over $20,000. I thought that, I didn't think I was living on this planet anymore. I thought there was like…

[00:14:15] Sanjay Parekh: And before that month, like what was the average gross that you were making?

[00:14:19] Stephanie Shanks: Oh, if I made a thousand, I was, you know… 

[00:14:21] Sanjay Parekh: Wow. 

[00:14:22] Stephanie Shanks: 2000, you know side hustle, right. So, it was right supplementing. My husband had, at the time, a business and we had an Airbnb. So my business went from supplementing to actually being an actual business. 

[00:14:38] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. Now I imagine that revenue stream then allowed you to then, I'm assuming invest back in the business.

[00:14:48] Like, what did you do to help yourself? Was it new equipment? Was it, what was it? 

[00:14:54] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah, well, I got divorced, and that needed to happen. That business plan, that change gave me my whole life back. I was able to get out of a bad relationship, get my own place. It's my son and I on our own.

[00:15:12] I, you know, helped him buy a car. There's no way I could have, you know, I, there's no way I could do what I'm doing now had I not made that big shift. So, I have a studio. I mean, everything's changed since I made that shift. 

[00:15:28] Sanjay Parekh: So, now like moving forward what's the, like in a typical month, like how much do you set aside for investing in the business versus like your overhead and profit and all that stuff?

[00:15:40] Like, is there like an ongoing, hey, every month I need to buy a, you know, a new lens or a new whatever. 

[00:15:47] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. I like to spend about $2,000 if I can investing in coaching and marketing. You know, yeah, I just bought a new lens and that's what I use right now. And then, you know, set some of that aside for if it does get slow. 

[00:16:07] But yeah, I mean, I have a pretty nice life and I'm not the best at balancing all that. 

[00:16:16] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, so that's $2,000 a month that you're basically setting aside for building the business, working on the business. 

[00:16:24] Stephanie Shanks: Yes. Yep. 

[00:16:25] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. So okay. So, so you kind of made a comment there, not the best at balancing.

[00:16:30] So is it, not the best at balancing like working on the books or is it like managing the balance between work and life and all of those things? 

[00:16:41] Stephanie Shanks: It's balancing the ebb and flow of a photography business. That's the hardest part. That's why I save as much as I can. I don't have a set amount that I save, or I invest because when February, March, April comes along and then nobody wants their pictures taken because it's cold and wet.

[00:17:01] And I always have to make sure I have enough saved up so that I'm not feeling that stress of not having as many clients. Working on it though, I'd really love to have a year-round sustainable business. 

[00:17:15] Sanjay Parekh: Oh, so that's what I was going to ask you then So is there like a plan of what you do during February, March, April, then?

[00:17:21] When you can't do portraits, is there? You mentioned weddings, but maybe weddings is not a thing unless people are going to fly to the Bahamas all the time. Which, that's not a bad thing to do when it's cold. But like what are you thinking in terms of that? 

[00:17:34] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah, so I usually take a month off in March to go someplace warm. Doesn't have to be the whole month, but take my son on a trip somewhere to San Diego.

[00:17:45] I've been to Santa Barbara, just someplace warm. And then I can refocus on my business, refocus on me. That's a huge thing to focus on the things that make me happy so that. And once, you know, when May hits and I start getting busy again I feel fulfilled and ready to take it on. 

[00:18:04] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, awesome. Well, we'll get into work life balance here in a minute and talk about some of those things but I wanted to ask you, is there a style in your portraits?

[00:18:13] That is kind of your style. And if so, like, how did you figure that out for yourself? 

[00:18:18] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. Again, you start out with, you copy everybody else's because you think that's what people like. 

[00:18:24] And you just keep going and going. And then all of a sudden, you have this whole new way of editing that's yours.

[00:18:33] And I like soft, bright colors. A lot of people like dark contrasting colors. So, my style is definitely reflective of who I am, you know, very nurturing, very loving, very kind. And I think my portraits reflect that. 

[00:18:52] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I love that. How has social media for you influenced kind of your work or, or how you promote photography for yourself and, and how does that kind of interplay with your clients and how you make sure you package what you give them so that they can use it across social media?

[00:19:12] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah, that's a good question. Social media is huge for me and my business. It's where I get the majority of my clients. And you know, when I'm doing a shoot for somebody that maybe just got out of college, in their fifties or their husband just died and they're trying to date again, or however it goes.

[00:19:29] I know that sounds, I could have used a better example, but these are things that just happen. I mean, it's life. 

[00:19:35] Sanjay Parekh: Sometimes it happens, you know? 

[00:19:37] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. It's okay. So, everything starts with the consultation, right? 

[00:19:42] What are we going to, what do you need? What do you want to get out of this? What shots do you want?

[00:19:46] Where are they going to go? So that day of the shoot, we've got a solid plan of exactly what we need. 

[00:19:52] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So, so some people do come to you for, for dating profile pics. 

[00:19:57] Stephanie Shanks: Oh, of course. Yeah, we eat with our eyes. 

[00:20:02] Sanjay Parekh: Well, I like that. We eat with our eyes. 

[00:20:04] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah. So, if you've got a standout dating picture, you're going to get way more, way more traction than somebody that doesn't.

[00:20:12] Sanjay Parekh: Interesting. So I'm very, I think, fortunate and unusual. I started dating and I married my wife well before dating apps were even a thing. So, I have spent zero time on any dating apps. I don't really fully understand, like I've seen the videos of it and stuff like the swipe left and right and I can't remember which one's the good one which was bad.

[00:20:32] Stephanie Shanks: I don't know either. I've never done it. 

[00:20:34] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, but I like those kinds of things. Like how do you set up a profile? It's like I don't really fully understand because I've never done it before but that is super, super fascinating and I wouldn't have thought that you should go to a professional photographer for those pictures, but it makes sense.

[00:20:51] Honestly. Okay. And I bet that's like an interesting, fun side of the business when you have to do those, but let's move on to talk about like kind of work life balance. Like you mentioned a little bit about getting out of the cold during kind of March and getting to someplace warm.

[00:21:11] What else do you do in terms of kind of work life balance and making sure that you manage stress for yourself? 

[00:21:18] Stephanie Shanks: I always try to take a couple of days during the week where I'm not shooting. And this time of year, especially because I do a lot of graduation senior photos and having those couple days where I'm not shooting helps me because then if it's raining one day, I've got to back up and I can schedule a day that's on my terms and get done the things that I need to get done.

[00:21:43] It's really easy to get, oh, I want to shoot every day because of, you know, the income, but realizing that that's not sustainable for me. 

[00:21:51] Sanjay Parekh: So, so in an average week, how many days do you have planned for shoots and then days for yourself? 

[00:21:58] Stephanie Shanks: Three shoots and two days. And then the weekends I try to keep free unless somebody absolutely has to have aweekend shoot. 

[00:22:06] Sanjay Parekh: Got it. Got it. Okay. So that gives you pretty good flexibility then. And then do you group the days that are for you? Is it like Thursday Friday always? Or Friday Monday so you have a long weekend? 

[00:22:17] Stephanie Shanks: Yeah, I try to have Mondays. That's a big one. And then Fridays are great too. So Monday, Friday.

[00:22:25] It's not necessarily a long weekend cause I do, you know, all the other stuff all weekend long. 

[00:22:30] But that's, that's the main thing. And then meditation, staying healthy, eating good, all those things that I need to do for me. To make sure I'm mentally healthy. At my best. 

[00:22:45] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So, you kind of mentioned this and this is, I think true for all of us as entrepreneurs that weekends are not really, because we're still thinking about stuff and doing things.

[00:22:53] Are you always thinking about the business? Like, is there a time where you like absolutely not, or, you know, what are those boundaries for you? 

[00:23:03] Stephanie Shanks: I pretty much eat, sleep, breathe photography, whether it's my business or learning new skills for my business. I just started a podcast.

[00:23:15] So now I'm working on figuring out how to best get people to see that. So always learning something that has to do with my business because it's my passion. Now, if if I was passionate about being a triathlete, then I would be doing that, but I’m just kinda, I'm all in when I'm all in.

[00:23:37] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things you mentioned before I wanted to ask you about is. When you got started there were basically no boundaries. Clients were calling you all the time, demanding things like, how have you changed that for yourself? Cause obviously you're a lot happier with the business. So, I can't believe that that's true.

[00:23:56] Like how did you, how have you set that up? And, and is there something now? Like, look, I don't answer the phone from clients if it's after this time or on these days or whatever. 

[00:24:06] Stephanie Shanks: Yes. Yeah. Anybody on social media that gets ahold of me, they have, I just send a link and all right, let's set up a time to have a call.

[00:24:16] That's been the best thing for me is to have specific times that people can schedule calls with me. Because it is a struggle for me because of course. 

[00:24:32] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, you want to reach out right away. Because we're always worried about wanting to not lose the deal, right? Like that's, that's the thing. Like there's, there's a hot lead there. Don't lose the deal. 

[00:24:39] Stephanie Shanks: Oh yeah. That's a real thing. And of course you don't want to, and you don't want to put them off because then they're going to go to the next person. So that's been a huge piece. 

[00:24:50] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. But, I think for all of us as entrepreneurs, what we fail to recognize a lot of times when we're in that situation is.

[00:24:59] It's a huge market out there. This is not the only client. There's many clients if they do end up moving on, it is what it is, right? There's going to be another one that comes up after them. So yeah, so okay. Last couple of questions here for you. If, if you could go back in time and do something differently, what is that? And why? 

[00:25:23] Stephanie Shanks: I think we touched on it already. It would be getting a marketing and business plan sooner that that maybe did not didn't start as a sustainable business, but at least had planned in place of how I can turn a side hustle into a small business that would have, you know, invested myself there.

[00:25:49] That's the short answer. 

[00:25:50] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Okay. Last question for you, Stephanie. If you were talking to somebody who was thinking about doing what you did and taking that leap from turning their side hustle into a full time business, what advice would you give to them? 

[00:26:05] Stephanie Shanks: Just do it. Don't put it off.

[00:26:07] I struggled on and off for years trying to, oh, when should I do it? Oh, people are going to be mad at me. Find an accountability group that maybe is doing the same thing you're doing, but just, you know, the sooner you do it, the sooner you're going to, you're going to profit from it. So, there's no, there's no future date, just now.

[00:26:28] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. That is absolutely great advice. Stephanie, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

[00:26:34] Stephanie Shanks: Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. Steph Shanks Photography.

[00:26:40] Sanjay Parekh: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit Hiscox.com. And to hear more Side Hustle to Small Business stories, or share your own story, please visit Hiscox.com/side-hustle-to-small-business. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find out more about me at my website, SanjayParekh.com.