Shawnti Refuge, Guided Journals

[00:00:55] Sanjay Parekh: Our guest today is Shawnti Refuge. She's the founder and CEO of Shawnti Refuge Journals. She creates self-care journals for people who want to enrich their emotional, physical, mental, spiritual, and financial well-being. Based in Houston, Texas, Shawnti is working to help her clients live their best lives free from emotional baggage.

[00:01:16] Here today to talk about her business, her journals, and how she got started is Shawnti Refuge. Shawnti, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:22] Shawnti Refuge: Thank you for having me. 

[00:01:24] Sanjay Parekh: I'm excited to have you on because we all have emotional baggage or baggage of some sort or another. So, working through that and trying to figure out how to get rid of that baggage is a great thing. But before we get into that tell me a little bit about yourself and what got you to where you are now.

[00:01:41] Shawnti Refuge: I didn't intend on being a small business owner, but I actually had a nervous breakdown back in 2018. And from that, I learned that when you go to see a doctor, they want to give you medicine for everything. Here, take this, here, take this. But I didn't want medication. I wanted to know why I was going berserk because I was. I was going through these emotions that I couldn't control, and I didn't like that. I eventually found a therapist who was willing to work with me because I was difficult to work with, but I found a therapist and she taught me how to release my emotions with guided journaling and talk therapy. So, no medication, no antidepressants that everybody else was trying to give me.

When she taught me how to journal and she taught me how to just speak, use my voice. We all have a voice, but especially women, we're taught to hold that in, suck it up, keep going and that weighs on you. So, after journaling, I started feeling better. I was surprised at how quickly I started to feel better.

So I said, okay, if it's working for me, I'm sure there's somebody else out there who doesn't want to have drugs shoved down their throats. They want to actually find out what is wrong. And that's how Shawnti Refuge Journals came to be. 

[00:03:07] Sanjay Parekh: Oh, that's an incredible story. So, I take it the journals that you make are also the journals that you use yourself. 

[00:03:15] Shawnti Refuge: Yes, they initially were for me, only me. I had separate journals for separate issues, cause I also learned that you don't write about everything in one journal. So, I had separate ones for all of the issues I had. I had 26 issues! And I had to work on them separately.

And that's how, and I took those same exact guided journals and had them published for everyone else to use. 

[00:03:41] Sanjay Parekh: It sounds like you don't have just journals, you have almost a library over there. You've got so many books there that you're working on. 

[00:03:49] Shawnti Refuge: Yeah. You would think that. We have one or two issues and I thought that was me, but no, come to find out I had a lot, 26 to be exact. Not everybody has that number of issues. But I have guided journals for your issue. 

[00:04:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So for you, did you discover these as you were starting to unpack? And that's how you got to all of these? Okay. 

[00:04:13] Shawnti Refuge: Yes. I was like, wait a minute, I have trauma from childhood. Wait a minute. I have trauma from being a teenager.

All this stuff started coming up. And, you know. we are on autopilot every day. We go through the motions and doing what we do, go to work, go home, cook, eat, sleep, all that stuff. And I guess my mind said, okay now, you have stuff you need to deal with. So, we're going to deal with it right now. And I just went crazy.

[00:04:43] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, so is this the first time that you've done something entrepreneurial or were you entrepreneurial when you were younger?

[00:04:50] Shawnti Refuge: I dibbled and dabbled with being a virtual assistant, but I wasn't in it. I knew that wasn't what I was going to be doing. So, I didn't put my all into it. So, I quit. 

[00:05:02] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So, this then would be the kind of the first like for real entrepreneurial venture for you.

Are you doing this as a full-time thing, as a side hustle? What is it for you? 

[00:05:14] Shawnti Refuge: I would say both. Although I still work a nine to five, but this nine to five is my investment money for my business. I am actually at a place now where this is my purpose, this is my calling, and it doesn't feel like work.

So this is forever. 

[00:05:32] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So when you started making these journals, you were making them for yourself. And what was it that made you realize, oh, this is something that I definitely should give to other people? What was the epiphany that caused you to say, I need to produce these for others?

[00:05:48] Shawnti Refuge: Because I knew I could not have been the only person going through this. There was no way. And I knew that. I literally pictured myself, and my future self, popping pills and drinking wine. I'm like, okay, I don't want to be this kind of woman. I do not. The type we see on the Real Housewives that they don't deal with their problems.

They're aggressive, angry, fighting, drinking, and, popping pills. I didn't want that. And I said, I know I couldn't be the only one who didn't want that life. 

[00:06:20] Sanjay Parekh: So how did you go about this? So, you made the journals for yourself. And then how did you get them made? Or are you getting them made?

Are you making them yourself right now for other people? What's the process?

[00:06:32] Shawnti Refuge: I make them myself. So, they're made. But I send them off to be printed. So, I have a printer that I send them my files and they upload it and work it up and they say, hey, is this okay? And then I say yes or no.

And then when I say yes, they print them out and they send them to me. So, when a person orders, they're getting it directly from me. 

[00:06:55] Sanjay Parekh: Okay, so you found a printer that will make them the way you want. You're buying them, I assume, then in bulk, like you're getting large shipments to help drive the cost down, and then every order that comes through, has Shawnti's hands on them because you're stuffing the envelope and sending them off?

[00:07:14] Shawnti Refuge: Literally, because with every guided journal, I write a note in it. 

[00:07:18] Sanjay Parekh: Wow, okay.

[00:07:20] Shawnti Refuge: I want the buyer to know that this isn't from overseas or from some bulk manufacturer. Nope. This is from me. 

[00:07:29] Sanjay Parekh: Did you start doing that from the very beginning, writing handwritten notes?

[00:07:31] Shawnti Refuge: Yes. 

[00:07:36] Sanjay Parekh: And what was your thought in doing that, like why? 

[00:07:41] Shawnti Refuge: I didn't want the buyer to feel like they were just buying something just to be buying it. You came to my website for a reason. There was something that I said to you on social media that made you say, let me go take a look. And even in my content I let my audience know that this comes from me, literally.

And I sign, I do videos of me signing them and saying, hey, this is your order. I block out their address or whatever, but I want them to know that it is from me and it's heartfelt. I love what I do, and I love helping people. And I never want anyone to feel alone. And I never want anyone to feel like I did when I was going through what I was going through. 

[00:08:19] Sanjay Parekh: So how many, on an average day or week or whatever, how many of these are you making? How many note cards are you having to fill out? 

[00:08:28] Shawnti Refuge: It depends. It depends. Every week is not the same. Every day is not the same. Sometimes I'm busy packing orders and I love it. Then the next week is dry. So, it's hard to tell, especially around, I try to get my audience engaged, especially around holidays or birthdays or Mother's Day, Father's Day, events like that, where some people have trauma surrounding those days.

But in between that time, I'm online telling my story. So, people do not feel like they're by themselves because a lot of people feel like they're alone and they're not.

[00:09:06] Sanjay Parekh: What's the peak day? Do you remember like the most that you had to do in one day? Note cards. 

[00:09:13] Shawnti Refuge: The most in a day was maybe like 43. I want to say maybe 45 or yeah. 

[00:09:20] Sanjay Parekh: Wow! That is a lot of note cards to write for a handwritten note. 

[00:09:23] Shawnti Refuge: I know my fingers was hurting and everything, but I don't mind. I don't mind. 

[00:09:29] Sanjay Parekh: So, have you thought about what if this blows up and you're doing 500 in a day? Every single day. There's no way you can write 500 notes. What would you do?

[00:09:40] Shawnti Refuge: I'm going to write them. I don't care how big I get because I am going to be big, but I still want to give that personalized attention to each client. 

[00:09:51] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, I love it. I love it. I think that's one of the things that's different then, and why people would want to buy them from you and be repeat buyers. So let's talk about that a little bit.

Obviously, this is a journal. It's going to take some time to go through it. What are you seeing in terms of people repeat buying? Is there some flow through of that? And is some of that because of the personal touch that you give them? 

[00:10:14] Shawnti Refuge: I want to say yes. I have a lot of repeat buyers, because I make it known that, do not write about 20 different things in one guided journal.

Each guided journal is tailored for your topic. So, if that person buys a self-esteem journal, you're not gonna talk about, manifestation in a self-esteem journal. You're gonna go get a manifestation journal. And I tell them to work on it one at a time. So that's how I get my repeat buyers. 

[00:10:40] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. Okay. So, when you were starting this out, was there something that made you nervous about doing this? Because you basically just had a feeling like, there's got to be other people out there. But there was probably something that made you nervous about launching this business. What was that? How did you overcome it?

[00:10:58] Shawnti Refuge: I was scared to death. Because people do not talk about mental health. That's something that we were taught to not talk about. It's so stigmatized and people don't understand that we all have mental health. Every last one of us. Don't matter where we come from, where we've been, who we are. We all have it.

It's a matter of who's taking care of their mental health versus who's not. I proudly tell people that yes, I was diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression in 2018, and I went nuts, but this is how I overcame it. It wasn't funny to talk about back then, but now I can talk about it and give the real on it.

I had my days where I look like somebody beat me up, that's because I was crying all day. But my main thing is for people to not feel embarrassed about having these emotions and not wanting to talk to anyone and not having a safe space. And I provide those guided journals as a safe space for people to express themselves.

[00:11:58] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. But what specifically was there like the nervousness in the business of launching it? What was it? Was it like, nobody's going to buy it or nobody's talking about it? What were the things that made you nervous? 

[00:12:14] Shawnti Refuge: Nobody's going to listen to me. Nobody is going to buy this. Nobody cares. I had to be consistent, and I have been consistent since March of 2021 when Shawnti Refuge Journals came up.

My goal is for whenever someone opens up their social media, they see this face. And me talking about, take care of your mental health, say your affirmations, do guided journaling. And so, with time, the sales have increased, my audience has increased, and I get a lot of messages.

People are still embarrassed about their mental health. So I get a lot of emails and DMs and thank you for what you do, you help me, blah, blah, blah. And I'm all about privacy. So yes. You're welcome. I'm here to help. I'm here to serve. 

[00:13:02] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox, committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, business insurance experts.

[00:13:23] Sanjay Parekh: Okay, you're doing this. I would essentially call it a side hustle because you've got a full-time job. How do you manage the stress of that? Cause that's a lot of things to be doing which is not great for your mental health, but you've got to be able to balance these things.

So how do you manage the stress of all this and making it all work? 

[00:13:43] Shawnti Refuge: I thank God that I have a very flexible nine to five. I'm actually able to work on my business during my nine to five. I've been here for 20 years, so people don't bother me. I paid my dues. And people know what I do. I've actually been asked to be a part of a mental health support group for employees here.

So everybody knows what I do and they applaud it. 

[00:14:15] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Okay so you're able to merge the two, your full-time job and your side hustle. What about doing shipping and fulfillment and all that stuff? Do you do that all at home after hours or how do you do that? 

[00:14:28] Shawnti Refuge: I just mailed off a package this morning in our mail room.

So I do it both. They know, they don't care. It's not that they're paying for the postage. I'm paying for it. I take my orders down to the mailroom and say, Here you go. And they ship them off just fine. 

[00:14:44] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. That's great that you've got a place, and I don't think everybody is that lucky to have a place that's that supportive of somebody doing a side hustle thing because they're like, no, you should be 24/7 focused on what we're doing. And so that's really interesting. 

Yeah. Is this something like when you started this, did you tell them right away or how did that grow? And like, from the get go, they were supportive of this and they're supportive of other people doing it or were you the first? Like, how did this all work for you? 

[00:15:17] Shawnti Refuge: I did not tell anybody because I didn't want anybody up here to know that I had a nervous breakdown because I was still kind of embarrassed about what I was going through. You ever saw that commercial where the lady is holding up the smiley face sign behind her face?

That was me, literally. So I was up here at work with the smiley face faking it. So eventually, I want to say maybe a year into it, so maybe last year, I went ahead and let my director know, hey, I have my own business and this is why he was like, this is wonderful. I'm so proud of you. Thank you for doing it. So nobody bothers me.

[00:15:57] Sanjay Parekh: That's great. That's great. Having a supportive structure like that obviously helps in doing this. Is your long-term view of not working anymore and being on the business full time, or is it still going to be just, hey, I want to keep doing both of these things?

[00:16:12] Shawnti Refuge: No, I will not be here past 20 years. I will be Shawnti Refuge Journals full time. 

[00:16:20] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Okay. So, the goal is to make the side hustle become the full time hustle once you can get it to that point. 

[00:16:25] Shawnti Refuge: Absolutely, yes. 

[00:16:27] Sanjay Parekh: So what is that point for you? Is it a number of sales? What is it that's going to cause you to be like, okay, now I got to go full time in that? 

[00:16:37] Shawnti Refuge: Me making what I make a year here at my full-time job. Once I see that in my business, then I'm going to be like, got to go. I'm retiring! 

[00:16:47] Sanjay Parekh: Right. Yeah. And so, looking at your numbers now, where do you feel like that is? Like, when would that be for you based on your trajectory? 

[00:16:56] Shawnti Refuge: I make 21 years next September. So, I would say by maybe May of 2025, I will be out of here. Hopefully so.

[00:17:06] Sanjay Parekh: Okay, you're talking about a year from now, basically, is what we're talking about. Okay. So that's good. You've got a deadline for yourself to build up the business. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about kind of the stress and demands of doing a side hustle with family life then and all the things that come with family life.

I saw your face just light up there like, oh my god!

How do you balance those things because now you got a full time job? You got a side hustle that takes up time and you're trying to make that side hustle your main hustle. And then you got the family personal stuff, that you've got to do or you want to do, right? How do you balance those things for yourself?

[00:17:47] Shawnti Refuge: I will admit it was very hard. And sometimes it still is very hard because I wake up and go to sleep thinking about my business. Like sometimes I can't even go to bed at night because I have ideas running in my head. So I'm not paying attention to my spouse. Of course I'm not paying attention to anyone else. But I got called to the carpet and I was told that I need to find some balance, do some time management.

And I literally just started in January with the time management. So, I only work, I only do work, like my business, at home. I only do it Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. But I do it five days a week here at my nine to five.

[00:18:33] Sanjay Parekh: Cause nobody at home knows what you're doing at work. Yeah. What about weekends? You don't, weekends are sacred. You don't let it bleed into the weekends?

[00:18:43] Shawnti Refuge: No, I do not. I take my rest. Come Friday night, it is over until Monday morning. I even get off, I'm not on social media. I take that time to regroup and reset, rest or whatever. Normally, I sleep all day on Saturdays to be honest.

[00:18:59] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. That sounds like good living to me right there. So you've mentioned social media a few times. It sounds like you did a lot of your kind of brand building marketing through social media. So, what did you do to build up your brand? 

[00:19:15] Shawnti Refuge: I started posting consistently, I was listening to other business owners saying, oh, you should post this many times, you should use these hashtags or whatever. And I started doing that. And then I was like, okay, this isn't going fast enough for me. So, I started going live. And so, I am consistently going live, consistently telling my story. I'm on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. And I post the same thing on each platform because everyone doesn't follow me on all the platforms. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm everywhere. I'm everywhere. 

[00:19:53] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. And what have you found for yourself? Is there some secret sauce for yourself that's helped you gain followers and sales? Like how do you track all of that stuff for yourself? 

[00:20:06] Shawnti Refuge: It's not a secret. I'm transparent. I don't sugarcoat anything.

I'm me. I don't pretend to be someone I'm not, and people always tell me, I love your authenticity because I don't know any other way to be. Especially after going through my healing journey, it was like, okay, here you go. 

[00:20:27] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Do you, so for the people that are purchasers of the journals, have they provided any feedback that have helped you improve the journals over time? Do you get that kind of customer feedback and integrate it back into the product? 

[00:20:43] Shawnti Refuge: Not yet and hopefully I won't. When I post my guided journals and I put the descriptions of what you're going to get inside. And I also say, if you have a question, if you're not sure if this is the right one for you, please contact me because I don't want you buying something and you get it like, oh, this isn’t what I wanted.

No, contact me and I will help you. So that's how I keep from getting bad reviews. 

[00:21:09] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, but, have you had the opportunity where a perspective customer or a current customer said, I wish you had a journal for X and you're like, oh, that's a great idea? I never thought of that. And then you make one for that. 

[00:21:26] Shawnti Refuge: Absolutely do! I always tell, if you don't see what you need and on my website, let me know what you need and I'll make it for you. And I will. 

[00:21:33] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, 

[00:21:33] Shawnti Refuge: I have. I've done it before. 

[00:21:35] Sanjay Parekh: So how do you, go through that process when it's something that somebody else is asking for, but it's not a baggage that you necessarily have for yourself?

How do you think through like, okay, this is what we need to do in this journal?

[00:21:48] Shawnti Refuge: I talked to the requester. We actually have a conversation. Tell me what you want. How do you want it to look? What did you, what do you want to work on? All of that. And then I show them a proof. Of course I have my watermark on it.

Is this what you wanted? Yes, that's it! Okay. I'll make it. Simple as that. 

[00:22:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Okay, nice. That's great to have your customers tell you what they want because you already know you're going to sell at least one right off the bat, right? Because you're the one that asked for it, you better be buying it.

[00:22:19] Shawnti Refuge: Exactly. 

[00:22:20] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. let's change gears a little bit here and talk about a retrospective. You've been doing this for a little while now. You've probably learned a lot at this point of things that have gone right and gone wrong. If you could go back in time knowing what you know now, what would you do differently and why?

[00:22:39] Shawnti Refuge: When I first started, I was listening to every damn body on social media. Do this, do that. I had too many voices in my head. Do this, do this, do this, do this. They all claim to be the same to give the same type of service, like business strategists and content creators. No, I didn't know any better.

So I lost a lot of money listening to all of these people telling me to do stuff that wasn't working. I had to get the noise out of my head, stop following multiple people who say they do the same thing. You follow maybe one or two people, you've researched them, you vet them, go to their websites, go find reviews, find people they follow and say, hey, you know this person? I see you follow them.

What can you tell me about them? Oh, I wish I would've did that in the beginning. I would have saved thousands of dollars cause I sure did get jacked from people saying they could do this or they can help me do this or help me get here. And all they did was take my money and run. 

[00:23:48] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, I've got a similar experience.

A couple of years ago, I started a gift wrap paper company, because I saw, like, hey, nobody makes gift wrap paper for these certain holidays. I ended up hiring a, you didn't know this existed, but a gift wrap paper influencer. And the money I paid that influencer resulted in exactly zero sales.

And it was just a waste. So I think a lot of times entrepreneurs, first of all, we don't know. And you feel like there's other people that are experts. And really what it turns out is nobody really knows. And sometimes you just got to do things and you got to keep doing things until you can succeed at the thing that you wanted to do.

So for you it sounds like a lot of that has been social media and just telling your story. Is there anything else that you do consistently to make sure that your message is getting out there and people know about you? 

[00:24:50] Shawnti Refuge: I go on other people's posts, and I engage. I go into groups related to what I do, and I engage.

[00:24:57] I don't go in there and say, hey, my name is Shawnti, I have guided journals. Want to buy one? No! I have genuine conversation because I do. I don't ever want to come off as fake. I don't want to ever come off as salesy because I cannot stand salespeople. So, I'm sure I don't want to be one. I engage in meaningful conversation, especially when it's a topic that I know about, I'm going to type my head off. And I show up to, I support other businesses as well because it's all about networking.

[00:25:26] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. It's, funny that you say this about just going into groups and being salesy because we see that so often online. And everybody knows when you're at a cocktail party and the person that comes up to you and all they want to know is what do you do and here's what I do. And let me figure out a way to sell to you.

That's the one person that everybody is trying to flee from at those cocktail parties. And I don't understand why people don't realize the same thing is true online. If that's the first thing that you're saying to people, nobody wants to be around you because that's not building up a relationship. You're just there for a transaction, just one transaction. 

[00:26:05] Shawnti Refuge: You feel used. I will not have anybody make me feel used. I will block you before that happens. 

[00:26:12] Sanjay Parekh: Okay last question for you. If you're talking to somebody who's thinking about doing like you did and starting a side hustle or planning to go from a side hustle to full time small business, what would you, what advice would you give them?

[00:26:29] Shawnti Refuge: Don't fly by the seat of your pants, have a plan in place. Do your research on whatever market you're trying to enter. Do your research, whoever you're taking up. Get a mentor, get a support system, but vet those people just because somebody says that they're a creator or an influencer, that don't mean nothing. Anybody could say that. Ask for receipts. And if they are not showing their receipts and social proof, reviews, things like that, don't even waste your time. If they can only say, oh yeah, I made six figures in three months. Show me! And that was my mistake.

I believed this instead of looking for receipts. Look for receipts.

[00:27:16] Sanjay Parekh: That is good advice. I should've done the same thing when I, that influencer had lots of followers and I thought, oh, clearly that would be my customers. 

[00:27:25] Shawnti Refuge: Followers don't mean anything. Yes. Don't even look at the follow up, follow account.

Do your research. Followers don't mean sales. Followers, half of those be bought. I learned that, they buy followers. I'm like, really? That's why I'm having to work so hard because y'all out here buying followers. 

[00:27:42] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, 

[00:27:43] Shawnti Refuge: I don't buy my followers. 

[00:27:45] Sanjay Parekh: There you go. That might be the title of a new business for us, We Don't Buy Our Followers. Shawnti, this has been fantastic. Where can our listeners find you connect with you online? 

[00:27:58] Shawnti Refuge: You can connect with me on my website Shawntirefuge.com or ShawntiRefugeJournals.com or you can find me on YouTube, TikTok Instagram, Facebook at Shawnti Refuge Journals. I'm everywhere.

[00:28:13] Sanjay Parekh: Thanks so much for being on today. 

[00:28:15] Shawnti Refuge: Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.

[00:28:23] Sanjay Parekh: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit Hiscox.com. And to hear more Side Hustle to Small Business Stories, or share your story, visit Hiscox.com/Side-Hustle-to-Small-Business. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find out more about me at my website, SanjayParekh.com.