Kathleen Minogue, Crowdfund Better

[00:00:00] Sanjay Parekh: Welcome to The Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast, powered by Hiscox. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. Throughout my career, I've had side hustles, some of which have turned into real businesses, but first and foremost, I'm a serial technology entrepreneur. In the creator space, we hear plenty of advice on how to hustle harder and why you can sleep when you're dead.

[00:00:22] On this show, we ask new questions in hopes of getting new answers. Questions like, how can small businesses work smarter? How do you achieve balance between work and family? How can we redefine success in our businesses so that we don't burn out after year three? Every week I sit down with business founders at various stages of their side hustle to small business journey. These entrepreneurs are pushing the envelope while keeping their values. Keep listening for conversation, context, and camaraderie.

[00:00:56] Today's guest is Kathleen Minogue, the founder of Crowdfund Better, the leading crowdfunding education organization in the US. Kathleen is joining us from Boise, Idaho. Kathleen, welcome to the show.

[00:01:09] Kathleen Minogue: Thanks so much Sanjay. Glad to be here.

[00:01:12] Sanjay Parekh: So I'm excited to have you on. I think you might be the first person from Boise, Idaho that we've ever had on this show. I'm trying to pull through my memory. I don't think we've had anybody else from Boise before. So hopefully you're the first of many, but I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about your background and what got you to where you are today and what got you to Boise, Idaho, of all places.

[00:01:36] Kathleen Minogue: Well I'm happy to share that it's a long and winding road that I'll compress for sake of time. You know, when I grew, I grew up in New York City, in the outer boroughs. I was a creative kid, artsy performing artist. All I wanted to do was be on Broadway. So, you know, how did I end up here? Well it, what I'd say is that I had no idea how important that creative background was to being an entrepreneur until I became one. So You know, I started in theater. I also loved education. Went to college, studied theater in a program that was student driven. So students designed, directed, you know, they did every aspect of the production. And so I loved that. I loved being a director. I loved putting things together, creating something from nothing.

[00:02:31] Went on to be a teacher. And often I've worked at edu at independent schools who wouldn't hand me a curriculum. They'd hand me a stack of books as an English teacher and say, go for it again, creating something out of nothing. And I learned I had to knack for writing curriculum, for designing a learning path. So I worked in education but I still had that passion for performance. Got back into that. Worked in nonprofits as you do when you're a performer. A lot of side hustle jobs. And and I ended up during one of those side hustle jobs temping at JP Morgan's Investment bank. And I spent a couple weeks working with a managing director.

[00:03:22] Who said, you know, I can teach you everything you need to know about finance, but you have what I can't teach and offered me a job. And I, here I was and I said, oh, well this feels like a once in a lifetime. Like you just jump, you don't think, you know, how did I end up here? And so there I was during the .com boom, working in finance of all things.

[00:03:44] But what I learned there was, I saw who came in the door, who got funding. I was working sort of at the nexus of investment banking and venture capital. And they didn't look like me. Most of them were not women. And they didn't come from backgrounds, you know, like mine, more of the creative performing artist background. And I said, well, how do things get funded? You know. Long story short, I, you know, got married, had a child, became a freelance copywriter. And then a friend of mine, a filmmaker, I had moved from New York to LA, asked me if I would help her produce her film. I never had produced a film, so you can see a theme here.

[00:04:23] I'm like, I've never done that before. Let me jump! And ended up using crowdfunding for her fundraising for her campaign. It was about 20 11, 20 12. And you know, no one was really aware of what it was. We didn't know what we were doing, but we, you know, put the campaign together, launched the campaign, funded the film. She went on to direct and then people started asking me, how did you do that, Kathleen? And the, you know, sort of the rest is history. I started helping mostly filmmakers and then moving into small business. Then there was a switch that turned and said, wait a minute, I'm an educator. I see so many people do not know they have the opportunity to raise funding without having to ask people for permission.

[00:05:08] You know, not asking a vc, not asking a lender. And I used that curriculum writing and education background, and even my performing background because I can stand in front of a room and speak. And that's sort of the nexus of sort of how I went from, you know, I'm a creative kid and now I'm talking finance and crowdfunding.

[00:05:31] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So was this the first time you had done, I mean there's like themes of entrepreneurship in your background there, but was this the first time you've actually launched a business that was entrepreneurial in nature?

[00:05:45] Kathleen Minogue: This was the first business. I think as you said, I, you know, as a creative I've been making, you know, something from nothing. Taking an idea, you know, if you're a creative, you have to make your own work. But this was the first time I had to learn the business side of that. Yeah. So, you know, really get into, you know, crazy things like, you know, up. Business plans and insurance and accounting. Right. To really dig into the fundamentals and think about this as a longer term.

[00:06:19] And I'd say that's really the differences with many of those other projects. They were short term. Yeah. You get an idea, you do a project, you put it together. And this was like how do you make something. Last, right. And grow over time. And it's been, you know, now it's been 13 years since I started with that first project.

[00:06:37] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. There, there is a lot of non exciting stuff that very pedestrian that is a part of entrepreneurship that You know, you don't necessarily consider when you're thinking about being an entrepreneur or you read about being an entrepreneur, like nobody sits down and says like, yeah I had to do my books today.

[00:06:56] Right? Like nobody talks about that stuff. But yeah. It is the very necessary stuff that you have to figure out. So, I, as you were starting this, was there anything that made you nervous about doing this that you know, you didn't know or you were worried about Not knowing.

[00:07:15] Kathleen Minogue: I think part of it was I didn't know if I knew enough to sell my services, right? Like, did I have enough information? And the space that crowdfunding was at that 20 11, 20 12 up to, you know and on. It was evolving so fast. I didn't know if I could keep up and really stay competitive. But honestly the anxiety was financial. Like when people are crowdfunding, they're usually looking for money. So how willing are they going to be to pay you when they're in a position where they're looking for money? And so like, what is the, how do you overcome, you know that objection. Well, I'm looking for money. I'm not looking to spend money right now. Right. And so really finding the confidence to say, you know, if you give me an hour, I'm gonna save you 40.

[00:08:05] You are gonna save 40 hours of, you know, you know, going through websites, trying to figure out what's what. You know, I spend my day every day in this space. I've been there before. So I think the anxiety was, you know would someone be willing to pay me? And then also, because it's not a repeat customer business.

[00:08:24] Could I sustain it? Right? Like once people do a campaign, are they gonna come back? Like, how do I, am I always going to need to find a new customer every single time? And you know, that repeat business wasn't, you know, something that was really in the business plan.

[00:08:38] Sanjay Parekh: Right? Yeah. That sales funnel is the very critical thing. So how did you get over those things for yourself? So like, thinking about it at the very beginning when you're launching this. Right. Like it's potentially going to take a while to get that first client in and are they gonna be willing to pay? Are they gonna be, how much are they gonna be willing to pay? All those things. How did you think about that for yourself and how did you ensure that you would be okay?

[00:09:03] Kathleen Minogue: Well, I'd say a stayed aside hustle for a long time and and i'm okay with that. You know, I'm okay that I took the time to really understand before putting myself in a position where it had to support me completely. And it really was the introduction of the education piece. I was like, wait a second. There, there are tools here where if I can't get the customer back, how do I decrease the FaceTime, the amount of my time? That I have to, you know, give to each client so that I can have more clients. So there was a different scale.

[00:09:47] And then how do I partner? So this was the big the other piece partner with others who have small businesses that they're working with. So I don't really have to go find the small businesses. How do I partner with people who have small businesses who are looking for capital? And so it's, you know, it's sort of, they're doing the marketing, bringing the small businesses in and then, you know, we just bring this tool to that group of people.

[00:10:12] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. How long was it that you ran this as a side hustle before going all in?

[00:10:18] Kathleen Minogue: So it was about, let's see, it was about four or five years before I, I jumped in. Yeah. And it wasn't really my choice to jump in. I I'll just say my, I lost my husband to cancer. And so I had to make a choice. Am I gonna take this side hustle and try to make it into a full-time business, or am I gonna, you know, wind this down and go find a full-time job? And I'm a little nutty this way. I was like, well, why don't I like deal with grief and go start, you know, move this business forward at the same time. But it was actually important, I think, to have this creative piece.

[00:10:59] Like I knew I was doing something. Also you know it, the working crowdfunding is often finding funding for folks who don't have a traditional path. And so it had real meaning. And so, so that was, you know part of the jump was this is really meaningful. And so in a time when I, you know, was a little bit like I, I could use something for myself to like, to find a, you know, who I am and why am I here? That provided me that, that, that piece.

[00:11:30] Sanjay Parekh: That, that outlet that you needed yeah. At that moment in time. Is there like thinking back on the clients that you've helped, is there one that stands out? That's like, man, that was the most fun? Like, that's the new bar. And you're always looking to, I mean, obviously you're always looking to overcome that bar with a new best. But right now as you sit here, is there one that just stands out to you as like, oh, that was, it was either a lot of fun or you learned a lot because of it, or, you know, whatever it is that stands out to you?

[00:12:04] Kathleen Minogue: The client, I mean, our clients are really focused on community.

[00:12:08] So, you know, there are a lot of crowdfunding agencies that will help you raise a million dollars. You know, you're gonna spend a lot on marketing. It's sort of a formula. My clients are folks who are more grounded in community and so they're really looking to build their business with community.

[00:12:26] And then they nurture that community and then they're able to turn to that community and to fund them. And no better example of this for us is Pioneer's Performance Streetwear. It is the only Black owned running apparel company in the US and it only exists because of the wherewithal of that founder and the community that showed up to help him fund the first manufacturing run using crowdfunding and he raised his goal in a week with no paid advertising with no. Wow. You know, like it was all community generated. And you know, we helped him with the process of warming that community up and understanding how to structure the campaign to get that kind of response And, he went on from there winning, you know, the Black Ambition Prize in Boston and he became part of RE i's Path Ahead Ventures and his product got put into RE

[00:13:27] And then most recently he came back to us. So we did have, you know, it was also, you know, there was a repeat. Yeah, there was a repeat. And that's something that, you know, crowdfunding is not something you just have to use once. He came back and said, I want to give my community the opportunity to invest in the business. To be owners with me. They helped me create it. So he launched a regulation crowdfunding. That's investment crowdfunding where anyone, not just wealthy investors, can invest in your business. So he launched that campaign. And really it was for regular people that, you know, very focused and he raised an oversubscribed $124,000, you know, you know, $500 at a time and was able to allow his customers to become investors.

[00:14:16] And they've just struck up a partnership with Brooks running to go to marathons and Oh wow. So, like, it's such an incredible story. But to go back to the beginning, he had invested everything he had in the prototyping, the design of this apparel. He needed $35,000 to do that first manufacturing run. And so without that money, it, you know, would it have existed? Right? He had sort of tapped every other avenue. And so that's exciting to me. You know, when you say like, what's the one that gets you jazzed? It's the businesses that stay in business, right? Yeah. Like that, use this process.

[00:14:55] We have a card game called Hella Awkward. They've been in business since 2020, started as a side hustle. They just got investment on Shark Tank at exactly the terms they asked for, right? Like so like these stories live on, but they have community at the heart. So if you ask me like. What are the stories I love? These are business owners who built their business with community and then that community showed up, turned around and said, we love you, we want to support you. Take our money. Let's go.

[00:15:25] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. And it sounds like the things that you've done and kind of where you've gone with this is to be more of a coach than a manager of a campaign like actually running the campaign. Why that decision to be more on that coaching education side? Than being on the tactical, like, let me run the campaign for you. I know how to do it.

[00:15:47] Kathleen Minogue: That's, it's a great question Sanjay, because I've run my own campaign, so I know what it takes. And what we found is that, you know and that means you have to pay someone pretty well to be a campaign manager. But what if you're not raising hundreds of thousands of dollars? How do you justify spending $10,000 on a campaign manager and then paying them a piece of... a percentage of that, you know, and then you know, how much do you have? And so we found this whole group of people who were like, I want to do this on my own, but I just don't want to do it with, you know, Google as my coach.

[00:16:25] I'd like a real person who has done it before. Who can I can bounce ideas with. Many were solo entrepreneurs and so they didn't have that balance with anyone in their community who understood crowdfunding. So for a while, we called ourselves the best friend in crowdfunding. So the decision was really to focus on a demographic that wanted to really put hustle over cash in terms of their investment in the campaign, but just didn't want to step in it, you know, trip fall on the way. And so our clients are those, you know, really, you know they put a lot of sweat. And because I'm an educator, like underneath, that was a big piece of it. I knew how to do that. It was intuitive to me.

[00:17:11] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, business insurance experts.

[00:17:32] Sanjay Parekh: Let's talk about that for a minute. You've got this background. You mentioned it you wanted to be in theater. You've got this education background. How have those kind of shaped what you've built and how you've designed this coaching for these folks?

[00:17:48] Kathleen Minogue: It's about storytelling, right? Crowdfunding. So right. As a performer, as a writer, you know, storytelling is in my wheel wheelhouse. But I'm always looking for ways to distill processes. So how do you distill a process down into steps? Because what I encountered was that people got lost. It was so overwhelming. And so, you know, the same way I would've introduced a student to writing a research paper step by step, I looked at crowdfunding in the same way.

[00:18:20] How do you build a campaign step by step so that it's not this big overwhelming task. It's like, okay, do this today and that tomorrow. And then that I look back at the work that I did. I put that there. And so that was, A huge part of building our Crowdfund Better process, which is, you know, you know, looking at what does someone need to be successful?

[00:18:43] They have to know what it is. They have to have a strategy, they might need some training and then get some support. And then we took a step back and realized that the people who were helping small business didn't understand crowdfunding, and so we've now built a training program for folks like your small business development center advisors, your economic development folks, so that they have the ability to help these small business owners and project creators right where they live in their community.

[00:19:11] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Talk to me about the business now itself. You know, you've been doing this now a number of years. How big is the team? Is it still just you? Do you have a team of folks, part-time, contractors, full-time? What do you got?

[00:19:26] Kathleen Minogue: So I've got me and then my ops, and then a team of people that we work with. Because what we get is so different, right? You know, it's not always the same campaign, the size. I also have a huge referral network of folks in the industry who focus on specific niches. So people come in the door. To us, we do some education and some strategy, and then it turns out that it's a great fit for one of my colleagues. So we like to say, you know, start with us and then if we're not, you know, if I'm not the right person, I will happily refer you to the right fit for what you want to achieve.

[00:20:03] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of that, is there like a big mistake that you see done over and over again with crowdfunding campaigns, like people trying to do and like, what is that and how can they do better? Or avoid that mistake.

[00:20:19] Kathleen Minogue: What is the biggest mistake? The launching before they look. And by that I really mean before they even look at other campaigns on that platform that are like theirs and learn from them, right? Like, you don't have to come to me. You can learn from looking. But in, in that also is looking and realizing that it's not about funding. That's probably the biggest mistake. People think crowdfunding. They're like, oh, it's all about the funding. No, remember that first part of the word? It's called crowdfunding. Right. And so, you know, if we imagine that you know, you know, your campaign is a camera on a tripod. People are like, oh I got my project.

[00:21:04] I got, I kind of know how crowdfunding works, but they forget about the third leg, which is who's gonna back your campaign? And so they launch without having a network of folks not understanding how to reach them, having systems in place, because you know, these days you need to reach out to people 15 times before you get them to take action. So how are you going to do that at, you know that at a sustainable level. So really thinking about the who and not just the dollar sign.

[00:21:34] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, that's that's, I think that's great advice. So let's talk about 1, 1, 1 thing that kind of strikes me a little bit. So I've never done a crowdfunding campaign, but I imagine if you, I were to do one, you'd probably be on the page all the time, hitting refresh, trying to see. You know, where's it at now? Do you have this inclination like you yourself with your clients? How do you control that? How do you think about that? How do you make sure that you don't become obsessed with what that number's at?

[00:22:08] Kathleen Minogue: Oh you know, it, trust me. I mean, I have my own campaign. It is very difficult. And not to be that way. And we've definitely been rollercoaster rides with clients. It is having a plan.

[00:22:24] That's the most important thing you know, because you're gonna run that plan no matter what is happening. And that's the other thing people don't realize. It goes into a trough often in the middle.

[00:22:36] You get like a peak at the beginning where it's very exciting and then there's a big push at the end. But what most people don't understand is it's what you do in the middle. When not much is happening, that creates that second push that finds that person that gets you that press coverage. It's while you think nothing is happening. So the most important thing is to work your plan for the campaign to have a day-to-day plan. That's the other big mistake is you know, I launched the campaign. Well, what's your plan for tomorrow?

[00:23:13] So how, you know, you have to have a plan and, you know as tempting as it is, hitting refresh is not gonna bring new people to the campaign, gonna bring new people to the campaign. So, you know, do your plan. And then, you know, once you've done your. The what you're supposed to do then hit refresh. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:33] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Well, let's talk about boundaries because you know, when these campaigns are running, obviously they're running from a certain start to a certain end. And for the people that you're coaching, there's gonna be times that they're panicking at random times of the day and night.

[00:23:51] How do you set boundaries for yourself and for your clients to make sure that you maintain a life and it's not, you're thinking about these crowdfunding campaigns all the time.

[00:24:04] Kathleen Minogue: When I started, it was really difficult, right? Because my success was their success in so many ways. And, you know, one of the things that people wanted to text me and so I made a really hard and fast rule and people think I'm nuts.

[00:24:19] I was like, you email me because if you text me every single time, my phone is gonna ding. And, you know, and and I can't really track it. It's gone. Right? Even, you know, they would want, and they would often want me to go on their communication channels, like, join my Slack. I was like, but that's your slack and now I'm gonna have to track your slack and your slack.

[00:24:41] You know, like so saying like, these are my preferred communication channels. And really asking clients to respect that because in email I might be up at 2:00 AM and want to respond to you, but that's my choice to respond at 2:00 AM. Not to have the, you know, a text message, you know, going, you know, ding in the middle of the night.

[00:25:03] And so it's worked out pretty well because we're very responsive. But you know, because we want to be a part of the process. But it's also why I've moved more to the education side and less to the coaching side. Right. Because as you start working with more people, how do you, there's a couple ways to scale, right?

[00:25:23] You can grow your staff or you can build tools that you can use so that you know they're working through the process and you're providing feedback. You're not running alongside, you're just checking in. And so that's really where Crowdfund Better has gone to is, you know, we have a process, we have online courses, we have a roadmap process.

[00:25:48] So, you know, we can touch at the critical moments, but not have to be running alongside the whole time.

[00:25:54] Sanjay Parekh: Right. So it sounds like you, you've kind of figured out. At least for now what things work in terms of the business, but. Let's take a look back and think about the things that you've done over the last however many years. You know, be it the full-time segment, or including the, when this was a side hustle. Is there something that stands out to you? Like, oh, knowing what you know now, if you could go back in time and do that over again. I'd do it this way. What is that? That you, it clearly looks like it. There's probably a long list, but give me just, you know, one or two that you'd definitely want to go back, do differently? No, there's one. Oh, okay.

[00:26:30] Kathleen Minogue: There's one specific. A lot of people told me I wasn't marketing enough Uhhuh. That's why I didn't have enough customers. And so I invested some serious cash into a huge marketing push only to realize that wasn't. You know, I didn't believe that was what it was. And and my belief was the more I stood up in front of a room and talked to entrepreneurs because of my special skills as a performer, as a teacher, right? Like it was about getting me in front of the entrepreneurs and getting me in front of the advisors.

[00:27:10] Like that was the sales point. Not digital marketing. And I was so right about it. I, you know I won't take it back because I know now that, I don't have to worry about that. But, you know the, you know, getting in front of people generates sales. Yeah. For me the relationship generates sales. And so, you know, if I could say something to someone who's like, trust your heart sometimes, like I know that, you know, you read all these things online and here's all these ways to do things, but sometimes you just have to know how you feel comfortable in the world. And so, you know, I do that with my clients all the time, and I kind of miss the boat there for myself. So learning experience.

[00:27:56] Sanjay Parekh: You know, it's interesting I see a lot of entrepreneurs that try to do some of these things with digital marketing in the early days. And they lose that relationship opportunity or that connection with the customer that would help inform them about their business.

[00:28:15] Right? They try to take that shortcut. That shortcut, I think is a good shortcut as you're trying to scale. But when those early days are happening, I think you've really gotta to be one with the customer and build that re relationship and that rapport. Is that something that, like thinking about the crowdfunding campaign, it sounds like, you know you focus so much on the crowd, like it's really about that relationship.

[00:28:38] Are there any things that you, Advise people to do, to help them build up those relationships and those kinds of connections into those communities that will support them.

[00:28:49] Kathleen Minogue: Absolutely. And even with social and, you know, digital marketing, one of the things we see as a lack of consistency.

[00:28:58] So, you know, being where you're going to be with regularity creates trust. And so we have a lot of small business owners who are like, you know, you know, posting here and posting there, and they're not sending any newsletters, no emails, like there's no system in place. And so. You know, relationship is about trust, and trust is built.

[00:29:22] You know I, what I say a lot is, you know, digital moves it faster, but human relationships happen in human time. And so you don't get married usually the first time you meet someone, right? There's usually, according dating, things evolve and it's no different than, you know, working your way into a, you know a sale with a customer. And the bigger your ask. The deeper that relationship needs to be. So, you know, when you're talking about, you know, a $50 pre-purchase for a rewards crowdfunding campaign, say on a Kickstarter, it's a different depth of in, of relationship than if you're talking about asking people to invest a thousand dollars in your startup using investment crowdfunding.

[00:30:07] So, right. You know what is that? And and there's a humanity that. I tell people get out there to events. It's so important. Like you were just saying Sanjay, you know that face to face. Yeah. People want to know the person. Who is behind this company. Sometimes I see campaigns and there's no face of the founder, and it bothers me because I want to know the person.

[00:30:34] I've worked with enough, you know, startups and small businesses to know the character of the company is really driven by that founder. So I want to know who they are. And ultimately, you know, what we say is when you're starting your business, you are bigger than your brand. So it's all about you getting out there. Once you have that business and it's starting to, you know, develop, then your brand becomes bigger than you and people, you know, don't necessarily, you know, know who the CEO is, but when you're starting, you are bigger than your brand.

[00:31:03] Sanjay Parekh: Yep. Exactly. Okay last question for you, Kathleen. If you're talking to somebody who's thinking about taking that leap and launching a side hustle or taking that side hustle and making it a full-time business like you did. What's the advice you would give to them?

[00:31:20] Kathleen Minogue: Don't. Well, I want to be in the positive here. Be sure you are ready if you're gonna move from a side hustle to a full-time. Don't let anyone else tell you when that is. You make that decision. Some people shame people for, you know, well, you're not serious about your business if you don't quit your day job.

[00:31:42] You, some people's lives are complicated. I'm a single mom. I can't not earn. So don't let anyone tell you when that time is. Really trust yourself to know when you are comfortable. I mean, don't wait forever, but you know, if you have true financial, you know, concerns, then hang on a little bit and you'll be okay.

[00:32:03] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, great advice, Kathleen. Where can our listeners find and connect with you online?

[00:32:10] Kathleen Minogue: Crowdfundbetter.com is our website. You can find me on LinkedIn, reach out, say hello. You know, we've got Instagram, YouTube, you know where you want. We also have a whole learning center, which is, you know, learn dot crowdfundbetter.com. So, you know, we've got courses that are really well priced. That is one of the things that, you know, we're proud about, is that we can help people and, you know, even people who don't think they have the means to learn.

[00:32:37] Sanjay Parekh: Awesome. Thanks so much for being on the show today, Kathleen.

[00:32:40] Kathleen Minogue: Thanks Sanjay.

[00:32:45] Sanjay Parekh: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit Hiscox.com. And to hear more Side Hustle to Small Business stories, or share your own story, please visit Hiscox.com/side-hustle-to-small-business. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find out more about me at my website, SanjayParekh.com.