Jaci Lund, Treebird Branding

[00:00:55] Sanjay Parekh: Today's guest is Jaci Lund, the founder of Atlanta-based branding company, Treebird Branding, a company that specializes in social media marketing, email marketing, campaigns, brand extensions, and much more. Jaci, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:10] Jaci Lund: Thank you. 

[00:01:11] Sanjay Parekh: I'm excited to have you on because, branding is one of those things that people don't necessarily always think about, and it's one of those things that you see when it's done poorly. But before we get into all of that, tell us a little bit about you and what got you to where you are now. 

[00:01:26] Jaci Lund: Yeah, happy to. So I started Treebird about 11 years ago and I always tell people that I started it because of spite. I was working at an agency and I hit like a natural ceiling there and it was a PR agency. And so I was their creative director. And I always say like on the PR side, when they're doing their job, they're being cautious. And so on the creative side, we want to throw caution to the wind. And so there was some kind of pressure there that I wasn't enjoying.

And I was like, "Time to go do my own thing." And so, that's how I started Treebird by myself at the kitchen table. Pretended that one of my best friends and husband worked on the team with me, but it was really by myself. And then, just started building our book of clients. And so I have a lot of experience in the hospitality space and multifamily, and then, started hitting some initial goals and then had hired my first employee that first year, which was really a big surprise for me. And then we've just been growing ever since we're a team of 10 now. And so that's where we got started. 

[00:02:35] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. That's awesome. What did you do before Treebird? 

[00:02:38] Jaci Lund: So I was working as a creative director at the PR agency. 

[00:02:42] Sanjay Parekh: So before that, anything entrepreneurial or anything else like that in your history?

[00:02:46] Jaci Lund: No, I was working as a membership director at a YMCA and realized that I don't enjoy doing spreadsheets and so I want to do creative. And then I went to the Creative Circus and I ended up teaching there for a couple of years and then I really wanted to do restaurant branding, that's how I ended up at the PR agency because they work with restaurants. And so, that's how I got there. 

[00:03:11] Sanjay Parekh: So you can be creative with Excel spreadsheets, but that's usually a bad thing, and can get you into a lot of trouble. Probably shouldn't do that. 

[00:03:21] Jaci Lund: And I just recently really got into the business ownership side because I'm trying to grow the business. And so now I feel like I'm way more into spreadsheets than creative. So like I've flopped back, but I like my spreadsheets now and they look pretty. 

[00:03:36] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So let's talk about that first year. You said like within the first year you hired your first employee. What helped you get to that point where revenue was obviously coming in?

Like how much are we talking about? And you were like, "Okay. I got to spend some of this money to keep growing and hire somebody else."

[00:03:51] Jaci Lund: Yeah. Well, my initial goal was to make a thousand dollars a month. So I was like, "Let me just at least make a thousand dollars a month." We blew right into that. And so I was making like around 10 to 20 a month. and I found-

[00:04:04] Sanjay Parekh: Man, that was a low bar that you had set there! 

[00:04:07] Jaci Lund: Yeah, pretty much, like we were busy. And what I found too, is that so many of the people that I worked with, they just wanted to support me as an entrepreneur because they had made a similar step. And so the clients that they were just so, they were, ordering jobs and ordering work that they didn't even need just because they wanted to make sure that I was busy. So, I think that too, like if someone's thinking about making this leap, you will be shocked by how much people are willing to support you because they have done it themselves.

And so that's just our origin there. And I just got too busy and I needed someone to really help me with the execution and then just continue to grow and foster the team. And that's how it happened. So yeah, it was pretty quick. 

[00:04:46] Sanjay Parekh: Was that group of initial clients something that you had cultivated while you were working or like how did you know those folks or how did they know you?

[00:04:55] Jaci Lund: I had gotten a pretty good reputation in the industry for creative for restaurants and retail and things and so there wasn't an agreement with the old agency. And so they were some of them were able to just come my way. 

[00:05:11] Sanjay Parekh: Switch over. How many years did you spend at that previous agency that helped you build up these relationships?

[00:05:16] Jaci Lund: It was about five years. 

[00:05:17] Sanjay Parekh: Five years. Okay. So not a very long amount of time, but long enough that you got some good clients out of it. So when you were starting this, was there anything that made you nervous, that made you second guess, should I even be doing this? 

[00:05:33] Jaci Lund: Oh, I was terrified. And I had been thinking about starting TreeBird for a while. And I had everything all set up. I had the website ready to go. And then I had, a complete melty, like I had a whole meltdown when I was going to send the email out to just announce the business. And whenever I think about our anniversary, I think about that moment and my husband yelling at me, “Just send the email!” Because I was terrified because I had this precious secret. And so then like, when it was out there in the world, it's no longer yours and so that's what it was. And then immediately following that was just tons of support and so many jobs and stuff coming in; people wanting to make sure that I was busy.

[00:06:16] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, so that melty that you had there, that was after you'd already quit the job, right? Like, you were already in at this point. Okay. 

[00:06:26] Jaci Lund: Oh, I was all the way in. It was like three months after I had left the job. And so I, yeah, I wanted to give it a little bit of space and that's when that happened. 

[00:06:37] Sanjay Parekh: Three months and you were still second guessing the whole thing. That's amazing. 

[00:06:41] Jaci Lund: Oh, yeah, 11 years later I still am like, "What am I doing?" 

[00:06:43] Sanjay Parekh: And what was it like? I don't know that I've asked many people about this but what was it like when you quit? How did you quit the previous job? You weren’t really going directly into something at that point, so, what did you tell them? What did you say? 

[00:06:58] Jaci Lund: I basically said, "I don't know what I'm doing yet." Because it was true. I still hadn't really decided. I had some interviews lined up and so I just remember, they're very sweet and we went out to a little happy hour on my last day. And I remember driving away and I just was like, "Oh my gosh, I am so free."

I'm so free because now I'm in charge and that feeling has not gone away. Like it was such an empowering experience and then the next day I went to a lawyer just to make sure that, okay, if I do this like I'm like solid. 

[00:07:32] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah did you feel any – because leaving jobs and I've left a number of jobs, too. Even things that I've started myself, there's like a little bit of melancholy, you miss the people you miss the stuff. Did you have any of that or was it just like I'm glad to be free? 

[00:07:48] Jaci Lund: Of course, my best friends in Atlanta are all from that job, but luckily we've all been able to maintain closeness. I will say too though as a business owner, there is a loneliness that you feel because I don't have work buds anymore.

I have employees and all of my friends and family are W-2 employees. And so, that had been a real challenge for a long time. And then luckily, I found the EO Organization, which is entrepreneurs, all connected together. And that's where I've met that need for having work buds.

[00:08:23] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. That was the exact question I was going to ask. Who do you talk about, or talk with about your challenge as an entrepreneur? Because a lot of people just don't understand the things that we go through. So, you've got, I'm assuming a forum and then your chat, you've got people that you can chat with regularly.

[00:08:41] Jaci Lund: Yes, absolutely. And it's been such an amazing experience. I've been in EO, in the accelerator program for a little over a year and you don't realize too, like, every problem you could ever have as a business owner has already happened and you just have to ask like there's a solution for you? You're not actually that special, it doesn't matter your business, someone has gone through it and they're there to help and share your story. And it's just like such a supportive community. It's been wonderful. 

[00:09:10] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, so the accelerator program, is a program that helps companies like yours get to a million dollars in revenue, right? Is that the goal? 

[00:09:19] Jaci Lund: Yeah.

[00:09:20] Sanjay Parekh: Okay, yeah, and that's a program here in the Atlanta, Entrepreneurs Organization Is it in other EO chapters? 

[00:09:29] Jaci Lund: In most. I will brag to say that the Atlanta chapter does have one of the biggest and strongest accelerator programs. 

[00:09:37] Sanjay Parekh: I believe they were probably one of the first ones too. I think they were very early on in that process. 

[00:09:43] Jaci Lund: I'm not quite sure, but let's just say, yeah.

[00:09:45] Sanjay Parekh: I feel like that's true. I feel like somebody's told me that and if not, we're just going to pretend.

[00:09:50] Jaci Lund: It's true today. 

[00:09:52] Sanjay Parekh: It’s true today. So, let's switch gears a little bit and related to talking about that and not necessarily having people that you can talk to. How do you manage then just the overall stress of owning a business? You've got 10 employees, something's going on with somebody all the time, probably, right? When it's more than one, something's probably going on all the time. How do you manage that? How do you separate that from the life stuff and your personal life and all of those things?

[00:10:21] Jaci Lund: Yeah. And, what I've basically come to realize, and this has started before EO and that has just like really grown me in this thinking, is that my history is as a graphic designer, as a creative director, it turns out I'm not an expert at HR. And that, building this business, I've had to learn everything the hard way. And had I known this in the beginning, I probably, well, I would have needed a lot more funding to start besides just a computer.

But like having a fractional HR person to help weather through some of the storms, I don't want to say I, I would say we, because do it as a group now, we are so good at hiring now. And so that process is something that just grew over time as the culture of the business has changed too.

And then also I feel like I'm stronger as an employer of knowing when it's time to cut ties. And then I also have the support of a fractional HR person making sure that I'm covered. And then this year too, just keep talking about fractional help, I just hired a fractional CFO because also it turns out I'm not a financial expert.

So, it's helping me so much to keep myself in the right seat. We focus as employers on right seats for your team. But it's also realizing what my strengths are and that, as an entrepreneur you end up doing a little of everything. Whenever you can, give up that seat and give it to the experts. It's just so much better than I could ever do it.

[00:11:51] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, you touched on two positions that I am reasonably good at doing, HR and finance stuff, but I do not enjoy either one of those. I would much rather somebody else do it and then I can look at the output and say, yay or nay. But, there's people that really love that stuff. More power to you.

[00:12:12] Jaci Lund: Yeah, let the people that love it, do it. Because yeah, if you don't want to do it, it's not going to be good.

[00:12:20] Sanjay Parekh: Exactly. And it's just ah, you have to dig into so many things and it's just not, it's not fun when you don't enjoy it. And so for other folks, yeah, I have a hard time identifying, like, why do you enjoy that? Because I really don't, but I guess there's things that I enjoy that they don't enjoy. So it's vice versa there. 

[00:12:41] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox, committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, the business insurance experts.

[00:13:01] Sanjay Parekh: Okay, so you've got 10 employees, you've got a business, things could be happening all the time, right? You've got clients and they've got demands on weekends and after hours and all that stuff. So how do you set boundaries for yourself and do you set boundaries and how do you manage those to make sure that you stay sane?

[00:13:20] Jaci Lund: Yeah. So, I'm a wife and a mother, so there's certain times of the day that are really sacred and no client or employee gets to take those times. And by setting those boundaries with myself, like we don't do evenings, we don't do weekend, this is not life or death work that we're doing. Everyone's going to be fine.

And so, by setting those boundaries for myself, I set them for the team. And so they get to enjoy really great work life balance as well and that's just baked into our culture here. Also, because I set it for the team, it's for myself. So when I feel myself getting pulled into it, I know I'm not going to bother someone on the weekend because I shouldn't be anyways for my own reasons.

So yeah, setting those boundaries, I think I had to do some physical things at first for that. We've always had an office, well, not always. Within the first year we got our first office, and I had to start leaving my computer at the office. So because I couldn't turn it off. Now, I'll take it home and I don't use it for work. It's fine, but that was my first, it was like a physical boundary, to stop. 

[00:14:33] Sanjay Parekh: Huh. That's interesting. I like that as a trick because you don't have an option there at that point. 

[00:14:40] Jaci Lund: Yeah. What am I going to do? I can't, I don't have access. 

[00:14:44] Sanjay Parekh: I'll do it on Monday or do it tomorrow. I do want to circle back to something you said a couple of minutes ago about, you've gotten really good at hiring. And that's actually one of the areas that's probably the toughest for a lot of people. So before starting your own company, had you ever hired and fired anybody? Or was this the first time you had to do that? 

[00:15:03] Jaci Lund: Yeah, I was on the team to hire people at the previous agency. And then I had support too at my previous job as the membership director at the Y. But no, never completely on my own. And so… 

[00:15:16] Sanjay Parekh: And what about firing? Had you ever fired anybody before? 

[00:15:19] Jaci Lund: With help, but it was not, yeah, it was not something that I felt like I really owned that process before. And so, that was really scary too, because I'm so sensitive to, this is people's livelihoods. Also, I'm also aware that it shouldn't be a surprise, like we should be talking along the way, and so figuring it out was definitely a lot of trial and error. 

[00:15:49] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Amazingly, you say that it shouldn't be a surprise, but I think for most people it is. 

[00:15:55] Jaci Lund: Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be getting fired, right?

[00:15:58] Sanjay Parekh: They would be doing better because they don't realize how poorly they are doing in the eyes of others. And I often say like firing is probably one of the most important skills for an entrepreneur and I still do not understand why we do not teach this as a skill in school. You know in high school, maybe even in college wherever you should be teaching these skills about how to hire and fire employees. Because hopefully, these are folks that are all going to be managing folks at some point or if not, learning how to manage that when you do get fired or hired.

[00:16:37] Jaci Lund: Yeah, like how to have tough conversations. I need everyone to be happy and like me at all times. So it's hard, sometimes that can be really hard and I've let things go on for far too long because I've been avoiding the challenge. So yeah, I would have loved to have had those skills. But now I just have the right person doing it with me or for me. So, yeah. 

[00:17:00] Sanjay Parekh: That's even better maybe. You had mentioned a little bit ago about setting these boundaries and you set it for the company so that it also sets it for yourself. Is there other things that you've done in terms of core values or company culture that you've done very intentionally or specifically or maybe done accidentally and now you're like, "Oh, we should keep doing that?" 

[00:17:22] Jaci Lund: Yeah, so we've gotten really into our core values in the last year. We didn't have any before and so now it's become a really emotional process for us. We can be a little witchy over here. And so, just taking time every quarter to acknowledge everyone's efforts and within the core values to drive that home has been a really powerful experience. So with every core value, because we're Treebird branding, there's a bird associated with it. And then also everyone gets a crystal that represents the core value. And it got real, it has gone wild, but basically there's not like one crystal assigned to the value, it's what's right for that person in that moment. And so it's been this really deep level of engagement with the team. We also have some like big awards that go out every quarter.

So we had one that was like, the soul of the family for one of our teammates that really is our glue that keeps us together. We have another that was called the ice ice baby, because if there's a problem, Lauren solves it and so she's got that one. 

[00:18:29] Sanjay Parekh: I was going to go with, they just randomly rap in the office, but...

[00:18:34] Jaci Lund: I mean it would be cool if she did, but yeah, she's like our problem solver. And so, I had even asked them too, do you want these big ones to repeat? We've been doing it for a year and they were like, "No, we want you to keep making them up." And so, I was like, okay. Pressure, but it's actually really fun and I feel like it helps them to really feel seen. And then there's just like a lovely beautiful embodiment of this moment that just sits on their desk and then hopefully, we believe in the energetic powers of crystals and it's doing that for them, too.

[00:19:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah so what are all of the core values then, since you've just figured them out in the last year?

[00:19:06] Jaci Lund: Okay. So yeah, there's flexibility and that's with the team and with our client. Quality, we always want to make sure that we're producing quality work. Inclusion, and so it's about including others and also making sure that we're looking at everything that we're doing through diverse lenses. I always tell the team, we can't be putting something out that's just a bunch of white ladies on it, like there has to be variation in every demographic we can come up with in all of our work. Oh my gosh now I'm blanking.

[00:19:41] Sanjay Parekh: It's only a year old, the values. It's not fully embedded, yet. 

[00:19:44] Jaci Lund: Quality, inclusion, vision, because, we can see the future. That's what we're doing. We're creating something out of nothing. And now the fifth one is totally escaping me. I'm not going to waste any time looking at that. It'll come in two minutes. Yeah. 

[00:19:59] Sanjay Parekh: I think it's the vanilla ice value, right? 

[00:20:02] Jaci Lund: It's the ice ice baby is the problem. 

[00:20:05] Sanjay Parekh: Jaci, you've been doing this now for 11 years. And even though the first three months were very questionable. Of the 11 years, if you could go back in time and do something differently, what would that be?

[00:20:23] Jaci Lund: I have no, that's actually, this question just came up, at a dinner not too long ago. If you weren't doing this, what would you be doing? And I always think what the hell else would I do? This is my specific skill set. 

[00:20:38] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, well, but what would you do different? Is there something like looking back? Like, "Oh if I'd known this, I could have done this better?" 

[00:20:45] Jaci Lund: Yeah I wonder about that too. Had I known then what I knew now would I have had an HR person in the beginning? Would I have had a CFO from the beginning? Like, having more support in the team would have been great. But I also feel like because of the trials and tribulations we've gone through over 11 years, I'm stronger for it so it's hard to say.

[00:21:10] Sanjay Parekh: You don't feel like you hired the first employee too early, too late? Could you have done it a different time and it would have been better for you? 

[00:21:18] Jaci Lund: No, I feel like I still feel really great about that first hire. She was awesome. And she stayed with me for about five years. So, yeah, no regrets there. Nothing I would've done differently. Here's where I feel like I would love to make a change is, knowing when to say no; knowing when to say no and feeling more empowered and stronger in saying no. And also just being willing to admit that we're a business that needs to make money.

And so I feel we get so chummy with our clients, too. We're doing favors and things like that. That comes at a personal cost to only me. And so really putting my foot down to actually acknowledge to our clients, "We're a business, we deserve to make money at this." Something I wish I had done. I've been doing that for about two years. I wish I'd been doing that for 11. 

[00:22:09] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, and that's a hard thing, because you do want to be personable and friendly to your clients, and you want them to like you. That's with all humans, right? You want people to like you and I can do you this favor and you're going to like me more. That's not going to pay the rent.

[00:22:25] Jaci Lund: Non billable hours are costing only me. 

[00:22:30] Sanjay Parekh: Exactly. So, how did you, that's an interesting insight. How did you make that transition and realize two years ago, "Oh, we need to cut this out?" 

[00:22:38] Jaci Lund: It came from within and now we've got a profitability model and things that we're able to do, whereas before it was just a sense of things. And so now, we actually, speaking of those awesome spreadsheets, we're really into it and we're able to look at a job for what it is. We're more empowered now to communicate with our clients about what's in and out of scope, because we're tracking stuff so much more closely than before. Before, I was a lot more, I don't know, loosey goosey about it, because I hated tracking time as a designer, but we have to do that as a business. 

[00:23:15] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, absolutely is this something that you share with your team? Your employees, do they actually understand on a client by client basis, what's going on and profitability and things like that? 

[00:23:26] Jaci Lund: Yeah that has been a big shift, I think, since joining EO is about clarity being kindness.

And we're also working through like the EOS method and traction. And so we've got the scorecard and everything. And so now, whereas, I was very lonely in knowing what was going on with our financials, now everyone knows at any moment what's going on. So that all of that information is shared and that's been really, a wonderful experience I think for me and for the team to know exactly where we're at on any given day. 

[00:24:01] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, that's great. Two more questions for you first. What would you tell somebody who's thinking about taking the leap like you did and launching a company, quitting their job, launching a company or launching a side hustle? What advice would you give somebody like that?

[00:24:18] Jaci Lund: Okay. First I would say do it, but also as a branding agency, have a good brand. 

[00:24:27] Sanjay Parekh: I like that. You're staying on message there. 

[00:24:29] Jaci Lund: Yeah. Have a good brand, people can tell if it's been DIYed. So if you want that trust and credibility, if you want to be a luxury service or offering, like you need to make sure that you look like one.

Because, today's average audience, they're very sophisticated. And so making sure that you really, truly have that foundation ready to go. And then launch, make that investment. But again, take that with a grain of salt because I'm the branding agency, but make that investment. It's going to make a huge difference for your brand. 

[00:24:56] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, what's the biggest problem that you've seen when people build their brand or their logo or something like that? They do it themselves or whatever. What's that one or two things that people should absolutely a hundred percent not do and they keep doing over and over again?

[00:25:14] Jaci Lund: I love this question. It comes up often. It's doing anything trendy. If you're looking at something and you see it everywhere and you think it's cool. It's going to not look cool in a couple of years. You're doing a whole rebrand and it's a whole, it's a gut job. So if it's like some cool font that you're seeing everywhere and you want to blend in and use it, no. It needs to be for your audience, unless it's a trendy product or service, that is going to be gone in five years.

When cupcakes were all the craze or something and that's not going to last forever. But yeah, just beware of trends. In 11 years, I can't think of a client that was the same business that had to do a complete gut job on the brand. Because we're so focused on very custom creative and that it is with that longevity in mind, it's going to be classic for a reason.

It's just like why, like now, everyone's got to repaint their houses because everyone did gray. Of course. Your gray house, it doesn't look so hot when you're trying to sell it because everything looks the same. And so, it's the same thing with your business. 

[00:26:24] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, to me, this sounds like when the hot thing in domain names with the .ly domain and everything was something dot ly something.

Yeah, now you don't have any of those, right? Like even bitly, which is the classic one uses bitly.com and not bit.ly anymore, really, unless they're using it for their URL. 

[00:26:44] Jaci Lund: You brought up a good point to get the .com. Don't get any other thing. Also for anyone starting a business, the faster you ditch your gmail address for your professional address, the better. That's like anytime anyone is talking to us about branding, that’s their first homework assignment is do not do business as a gmail. That is immediately like you're going to give people the startup DIY taste in their mouth. 

[00:27:11] Sanjay Parekh: I got to admit, I'm flabbergasted when I see companies that do have their own domain, they have their own website and yet they still have a gmail account or a yahoo account or whatever account for their email. I'm like, "You have a domain, just point it, you don't need to be doing that."

[00:27:27] Jaci Lund: You can still use gmail. You don't have to be an Outlooker. Yeah, it's fine. But don't sell yourself short with the gmail. 

[00:27:33] Sanjay Parekh: And, if you don't know how to do that, spend 50 bucks, ask somebody that's technical, get them to set it up for you because it's not looking good. "I knew how to set up my website, but I didn't know how to set up my email." That's what you're telling me. 

[00:27:46] Jaci Lund: Yeah. It's those first impressions, those like little key pieces that can make such a big difference. 

[00:27:52] Sanjay Parekh: Right, and people like me are judgy. So, don't do those things. We got two judgy people on a podcast. Probably not ideal. But it is what it is. Jaci, this has been fantastic. Where can our listeners find and connect with you? 

[00:28:10] Jaci Lund: Absolutely. You can find Treebird at TreeBirdBranding.com or, you can see a lot of cool stuff on our Instagram @TreeBirdBranding. And then, anyone can always hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm always ready to chat. So, Jaci Lund on LinkedIn. 

[00:28:26] Sanjay Parekh: Awesome. Thanks for coming on today. 

[00:28:28] Jaci Lund: My pleasure. 

[00:28:29] Sanjay Parekh: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast powered by Hiscox.To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit hiscox.com. And if you have a story you want to hear on this podcast, please visit hiscox.com/shareyourstory. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find out more about me at my website, sanjayparekh.com.