Grace Nelson, Magenta Strategy

[00:00:00] Sanjay Parekh: Welcome to the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast powered by Hiscox. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. Throughout my career, I've had side hustles, some of which have turned into real businesses. But first and foremost, I'm a serial technology entrepreneur. In the Creator Space, we hear plenty of advice on how to hustle harder and why you can sleep when you're dead.

[00:00:21] On this show, we ask new questions in hopes of getting new answers. Questions like, how can small businesses work smarter? How do you achieve balance between work and family? How can we redefine success in our businesses so that we don't burn out after year three? Every week, I sit down with business founders at various stages of their side hustle to small business journey.

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[00:00:56] Today's guest is Grace Nelson, the CEO of Magenta, a business consulting firm based in Atlanta, Georgia. Grace, welcome to the show.

[00:01:03] Grace Nelson: Thanks for having me. Great to be here.

[00:01:05] Sanjay Parekh: Uh, I'm excited to have you on because, you know, obviously a lot of our listeners are people that run their own businesses and consulting is, is something that they think about a lot of times.

[00:01:14] Like, do they need to get help and you know, how do they figure out who to get help from? But before we start digging into all of that stuff, give us a little bit about your background and what got you to where you are today.

[00:01:25] Grace Nelson: Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm in the nonprofit sector and I landed, my professional background is in nonprofit, which I landed in somewhat accidentally.

[00:01:34] I, um, the common thread is I have always had a deep interest in art and music, uh, from when I was a little kid. And, um, I've always been a very strong writer. So, um, in high school, you know, I started thinking about what I wanted to do, um, thinking it would be very cool one day to, uh, run a business or, you know, have my own company.

[00:01:56] Uh, I didn't really know what that meant yet. Um, but I was, I was looking for the through line of how do all these things intersect. And I thought, okay, I'm going to go run an art museum, run an art gallery. And, um, so I went to college and I decided to double major in finance and fine art, a little bit unorthodox.

[00:02:13] Um, but I thought if I'm going to run an art museum, I need to know my products and I need to know how to run a business. So, uh, that strategy worked for me and I landed um, at the Woodruff Arts Center, which is, um, in Atlanta, Georgia, one of the largest, uh, art centers in the Southeast and also a very large nonprofit, one of the largest nonprofit organizations in Atlanta.

[00:02:34] So that's, that's how I got started in the nonprofit sector. Uh, and it was a great place to start my career and to learn.

[00:02:41] Sanjay Parekh: I super smart on you. Like you clearly you're an underachiever, uh, dual majoring. Um, but smart on you for, uh, doing the finance thing. Like I regret not taking any finance classes when I was a Georgia Tech engineer, electrical engineer student. Um, I, I think it would have really helped me out. Um, so that's, that's awesome. Now you mentioned, uh, not really understanding what it meant to be an entrepreneur when you run a business. Did you do anything entrepreneurial when you were younger? Um, as a kid, lemonade stand, like anything in there?

[00:03:15] Grace Nelson: Yeah, I actually, that's funny that you asked that because when I did start my business, no one in my family was one bit surprised. I, uh, I mean, folks were thinking back to when I was a little kid, we'd go on vacations with my cousins and, you know, there'd be a long time in the car or, you know, downtime.

[00:03:34] And I organized my cousins into an annual puppet show and I like wrote a script and directed it. So I had this art direction sort of gene, I guess. Um, and my poor cousins, I don't know if this was something that they volunteered for, if I was just like, okay, you are, you're cat puppet and we made the puppets and we perform before of our family at the at the I mean so that You know That was like six year old Grace. So I guess it's a innate.

[00:04:03] Sanjay Parekh: They got ball and told that they were participating Um in this uh that so that's that's funny. So there were no other entrepreneurs in the family like nobody else that You kind of took this key from?

[00:04:15] Grace Nelson: Not in particular. Um, a lot of writers in the family, lawyers and that kind of thing.

[00:04:20] Um, my, my parents are both pilots. Um, and so they definitely, my mom in particular being an Air Force pilot. Um, during the 80s. I mean, there was definitely a little bit of an independent straight streak there. Um, and and charting one's own path. Um, that's actually where the inspiration for the name of my company comes from.

[00:04:41] And in an airplane, the GPS line is magenta. And so I thought about getting clients from point A to point B. So, yeah, definitely a little bit of a, in unorthodox independent spirit, um, in my parents, but, but not entrepreneurs in particular.

[00:04:56] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Well, was that a pilot in the military as well, or was he commercial or?

[00:05:01] Grace Nelson: Uh, yeah. So they met in the Air Force, um, and then they ended up in Atlanta because they both ended up with Delta.

[00:05:07] Sanjay Parekh: Oh, there you go. Um, so I gotta imagine you guys got a lot of good trips out of that. I mean both

[00:05:13] Grace Nelson: Very spoiled very spoiled. Yes

[00:05:17] Sanjay Parekh: Favorite country of all the places that you've gone to.

[00:05:20] Grace Nelson: Oh gosh. I mean is it so basic to say France? Because any any um for me any landscape with the mountains tumbling into the sea and then you combine that with good wine. I mean, I know that France is a pretty pretty basic answer, but it's that way for a reason.

[00:05:41] Sanjay Parekh: I mean, there's a good reason why it's like that.

[00:05:45] And a lot of people go and visit France every year. So, um, that's awesome. That's awesome. Okay. So let's kind of, uh, kind of dig in here. So, okay. You were working at Woodruff Arts Center. And then was it during that time that you decided that you wanted to start your own thing and, and how did you make that move when you did decide?

[00:06:03] Grace Nelson: Yeah, I, I had a great, career at the Woodruff. I learned there that fundraising is the backbone of any nonprofit organization. And that was where that was where I was. Um, and I, uh, when I, when I left the Woodruff, I, my role was I was head of strategy, um, in in the fundraising department, which basically meant I forecast how much money I thought we were going to raise.

[00:06:31] Not that I thought I forecast how much money, um, we were going to raise and I, uh, wrote the messaging for our go to market strategy. So prospecting and how do we align what we offer with those prospects. At the same time, I went and got an MBA. At Georgia Tech, nights and weekends. And, um, during that program, I had some pro bono consulting clients.

[00:06:55] I also had some volunteer opportunities through the Woodruff Arts Center, and so I was doing quite a bit of pro bono or volunteer, uh, consulting with smaller organizations, sharing. Uh, the, the expert fundraising, uh, that I had learned at the Woodruff Arts Center, uh, with scaling organizations. And I had kind of a slate of clients while I was still doing my full time job.

[00:07:17] So when I was ready, um, to move on, I graduated, uh, from Georgia Tech. When I was ready to pursue the next thing, um, I started to basically turn those clients into paying clients. And that was how I started my company.

[00:07:31] Sanjay Parekh: Oh, that's interesting. So you, you, man, you like double side hustle here. You were working, you were side hustling the MBA and doing that, which honestly I think is a very difficult thing.

[00:07:41] Like I never did that. I quit my job and went full time, uh, doing my MBA. Working and doing the MBA, I feel like is super hard, but of course, as we've already heard, you're an underachiever. And so then you added on the side hustle of starting your business and bootstrapping. Was there anything that made you nervous, um, in doing all of this and, and concerned about juggling all of this at the same time?

[00:08:04] Grace Nelson: I was very nervous. I mean, I still remember going in, um, to put in my notice at the Woodruff, which was a great job. And, um, and I was very, very nervous about, uh, starting my own thing and, and leaving what had been a secure job for me for years. When I was, when I started the, you know, quote unquote side hustle, it was usually for a course credit or like towards a volunteer achievement.

[00:08:30] And so I had been always within the guardrails of a specific initiative or program. Um, and I wanted to pursue it on my own, because I, this was actually right before COVID too. So I was pursuing this flexible lifestyle. And I was like, I'm going to get to work from home. Like, I started in November, 2019. So, you know, 3 months before the entire world was working from home, um, and But yes, I was very nervous about having to, um, I mean, sourcing my own clients was a big one because up until that point, um, all of the, I was lucky to start with a slate of clients that I had gotten through, you know, either through Woodruff or through Georgia Tech.

[00:09:11] Um, you know, and then I didn't have those pipelines anymore, so I had to, I had to do it on my own. So that was, that was probably the thing that made me most nervous.

[00:09:19] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, yeah. Did you, um, so as you were working through Woodruff Arts and, and, and the MBA, did you work with other business consultants and, and did you like see their business and be like, okay, that's the thing I want to do? How did that impact your decision process?

[00:09:34] Grace Nelson: Yeah, we worked with a lot of fundraising or sponsorship consultants at the Woodruff Arts Center to varying degrees of success. Um, and I think that, you know, one of the things that I saw often were consultants trying to do too much, uh, sometimes consultants, especially for a big organization like the Woodruff.

[00:09:52] I mean, they're already fundraising 50 million a year. And so to grow on that is, um, I mean, it's, it's, it's tough. They're doing a lot. Right. And so, um, and so, you know, we interacted with some consultants who had a very specific niche. And we're very good at what they did and therefore we're able to deliver on results.

[00:10:14] And then we had others who would promise the world and then we would sort of get this, um, we would get it, you know, a slide deck that was never used again. And so I, when I started as a consultant myself, I was a little bit jaded about consultants and promised myself I would never be that slide deck person.

[00:10:32] I really wanted to, to make a difference, um, for, particularly because I work with a lot of growth stage organizations and, and they can't be spending money and not seeing results.

[00:10:43] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox, committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, the business insurance experts.

[00:11:06] Sanjay Parekh: So, you know, how do you kind of see everything kind of going for nonprofits right now. I mean, I think nonprofits have just historically always had challenges. Like every year it's like a, well, this is going to be a tougher year than last year. Right. And I think we've seen that historically kind of going forward all the time.

[00:11:23] It's harder to get donations year after year. And a lot of organizations have this, this tough challenge to make sure that they get to that number that they need to sustain themselves. So, you know, how do you see that for some of these organizations? How do they deal with these challenges?

[00:11:39] Grace Nelson: That's a great question and, and speaks a lot to the inspiration behind what I do. So, um, within the fundraising consultant sphere, there are many fundraising consultants and Magenta's niche in particular is an impact reporting. And so what we do is we We, we clarify and capture nonprofit organizations impact, uh, and then create a message, you know, in the form of a website or an impact report or, you know, booklet, um, and we message that impact to funders in the nonprofit sector in general.

[00:12:17] It can be very difficult to demonstrate whether an organization is performing well, because they're a non profit. So you have removed that universal indicator of profit that for profit businesses have to tell you how an organization is doing. And so non profits have to do a little more work to demonstrate their impact. So on the one hand, uh, that makes it difficult. I mean, nonprofits come under a lot of fire having to justify their fundraising because you're not necessarily selling, you know, a dollar for an item. Um, on the other hand, if nonprofits can clarify their impact, well, uh, today we have unlimited access to,

[00:13:03] the whole world as an audience through social media and websites. And, and, um, I mean, we, we can get that message out there in front of the right people with the availability of data and research and, and the interconnectedness of the world. So I would say that's a, um, a long way of saying that. It is, it remains difficult because of the challenges in the world, uh, but the opportunity is greater than ever.

[00:13:30] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. What do you see in terms of like the biggest challenges and changes happening in the next, let's say five to 10 years? And how are you thinking about those, not just for yourself, but also for your clients?

[00:13:45] Grace Nelson: Yes, I, um, I think there is a growing scrutiny of nonprofit organizations.

[00:13:56] I'm giving them money. Are they putting it to good work? Um, we have seen this with the executive orders earlier this year. Um, we have seen it with donors over covid. Um, there was, you know, people were sitting at home and there was a huge injection of individual philanthropic funds. And then after that, they took a nosedive.

[00:14:18] Um, because people are, are tired and they're disillusioned and, you know, holy cow, we just made it through this pandemic. So, um, so that is what makes translating dollars to impact more important than ever, because. It is on the nonprofit to continue to be accountable to donors and to clarify why a donated dollar makes a difference towards this big, broad mission. So that's a hard thing to do. Um, and I, I think that the, that the organizations who, who do it well will be the ones who, who thrive.

[00:15:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Are there other things that you feel like nonprofits should be taking in terms of a practice from the for profit world, um, that they are not yet.

[00:15:11] Grace Nelson: I love that question.

[00:15:13] I, I think this is actually less of a, this would not be a criticism of nonprofits, but more of the philanthropic space in general. Because there are not, because we don't have the universal indicators of your income statement. And as it You know, nonprofits, of course, have an income statement, but it's read a little bit differently because they are, they're, they're not doing everything to enhance the bottom line.

[00:15:37] So, um, so funders have tried different ways of measuring progress. One of the ways that grant funders measure how an organization is doing is requiring them to report how much they spend in terms of admin programs and like communications or marketing or fundraising. Um, and nonprofits get, uh, penalized a lot of times for having a large administrative spend.

[00:16:08] On the other hand, you know, if Coca Cola sells you a bottle of coke. Like you, you just, you, you care whether the, whether you're, you're refreshed, you care whether it tastes good, you know, you don't care how much they spent on their marketing or their, what, you know, you care about the product. And, um, you know, and people criticize nonprofits and say like, oh my gosh, their website's so old, or they're not, you know, up to the 21st century.

[00:16:30] Well, it's because they get penalized. And so for, for, for investing in administrative costs, like staff and technology, um, there are ways to get around that by, you know, aligning, you know, staff accounting with pro, you know, this is a program staff member. So I'm going to, but then you have to do all this creative accounting and, um, it's still a lot more work on the organization side to justify

[00:16:55] the work that they are doing to achieve their mission. So I think, um, from a philanthropic standpoint, we need to encourage organizations to invest in those administrative costs that, you know, while it may be a short term cost, uh, it creates a longer term positive impact.

[00:17:15] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So there's an interesting kind of, uh, kind of point in, in your answer there that I think, uh, I want to draw into.

[00:17:22] So, you know, if you look at a for profit corporation, um, and they take investment from somebody that investor never says, hey, you can only use this money for marketing or you can only use this money for whatever, right? There's no restrictions on that money. They're giving that money into that organization for that organization to be successful overall.

[00:17:43] So they spend the money. However, whereas you look at a nonprofit so many times you're given the money and said, like, you can only spend this money on this project or this program and not unrestricted funds. So how do you. Like, I, I've always seen that and I'm like, how do you deal with that as a nonprofit?

[00:18:00] Because it really hamstrings you in terms of investing in the things that you just talked about, you know, a better website, a better marketing, you know, better, all those kinds of things.

[00:18:10] Grace Nelson: I'm so glad that you asked that question because I mean, I think a few things. I think one, that is why we see a lot of the issues with nonprofits with, you know, not just technology, but there's a lot of staff burnout, um, there.

[00:18:24] I mean, look at me, I was in nonprofit. I was a high achiever and I have left to do my own thing. So, uh, and that's not uncommon. So, um, I think it I think it is a it's a real issue that needs to be solved. And, um, I think that 2 part answer to your question. Number 1. It all comes back to that aligning dollars with impact because we need to show the folks who are buying our product.

[00:18:58] And by buying our product, I mean, donating money so that we can achieve our mission. We need to show them that how that money is achieving the mission. Um, we need to show them if it is being invested in, in technology or staff, how that, how, how that relates to the, the broader vision of the organization.

[00:19:20] The other thing that I'll say is that there is a trend toward social impact investing. And I think that's a good thing because those organizations are, they are. You know, B corps or, uh, social impact firms, startups, they are, they're doing good. And they're also generating a profit. And I think that right there actually eliminates some of the issues that we're talking about.

[00:19:44] I was actually even on a call last week, um, with, uh, Georgia social impact collaborative about. Community foundations directing some of their funds toward not just towards nonprofits and philanthropy, but also towards, um, impact investing because they get a return. And so the whole financial system is sort of set up, um, for that, for that mutual benefit.

[00:20:08] And so I, that's a space I'm really eager to learn more about, uh, because I, I think that it can be really mutually beneficial.

[00:20:15] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Um, I, I'll just make a plea to any of our listeners. If you're donating money to especially smaller nonprofits, really think about, you know, are you going to give it as an unrestricted donation versus, uh, tying it to some program?

[00:20:28] I think this is, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think there's less of an issue as you get to bigger and bigger nonprofits. You know, I'm thinking like a Red Cross and folks like that, like they get plenty of unrestricted funds. Whereas the people in the middle and the smaller folks, it's harder for them to get unrestricted funds. Is that true? Or am I wrong about that?

[00:20:47] Grace Nelson: Yes and no. Um, at the Woodruff Arts Center, we actually, you know, there were a lot of sponsorships, so there were plenty of restricted funds, tons of restricted grants, tons of sponsorships that, um, had to be directed towards one event or another. And, but the difference was that the organization had the staff capacity.

[00:21:08] They were set up to manage those restrictions, whereas a smaller nonprofit organization may have the same number of restrictions, but they, they don't have the, you know, the donor stewardship team to be able to deliver on tons of different requirements. Um, and I, I think that some of that comes from, we, we have to, on the donor side, we have to have faith.

[00:21:34] That the leadership of the nonprofit organization can carry out what they said they're going to do. And it is not our job. If I'm not a board member, if I'm not a staff member of the nonprofit, I'm, I'm a donor. It is not my job to tell them what to do with the money. On the nonprofit side. We're promising a result as a result that comes from that donation.

[00:21:59] Uh, we are promising that, you know, we'll see the world a different way after your donation. And so we have to have the track record and be accountable to deliver that. And that is again, where impact reporting comes in.

[00:22:12] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. Let's, let's change gears a little bit. This has been a fascinating conversation about that, but let's change gears. Um, let's talk about you and, and kind of what you've learned as you've gone through this process. Is there one lesson, um, that you now know that you wish you'd learned much earlier in your career?

[00:22:29] Grace Nelson: Yes, there are. There are many. Um, the one that has made the most difference in my career has been productizing my offerings. Um, by that, I mean, I'm a service provider. I'm a consultant. And I think I know there are entrepreneurs who are listening, uh, to this, this interview and many service providers can probably relate to it. The scope creep issue, um, things spiraling beyond, you know, I thought I was just doing this and now it's spiraled out of control and, and sometimes the scope creep, it's, you know, you can set all these boundaries and put a contract in place, but sometimes defending against the scope creep is as much work as just doing the additional thing that was asked of you.

[00:23:15] And it was so exhausting for me for so long. So, um, my main problem was that I was positioning myself as a fundraising consultant. And so I was competing with every, there are tons of fundraising consultants that I was, I, that could mean social media, crowdfunding, it could mean events. It could mean grant writing.

[00:23:34] It could mean anything. And so before I positioned myself in my niche, I was competing with others on projects that I didn't even want. Um, and then my clients weren't really that clear on my delivery. And so they would ask me for things that were out of scope and not even necessary. It wasn't because they didn't like me.

[00:23:55] It was because they didn't necessarily understand what the scope was. And so, um, I began to wrap up my, my services in the form of a product. And, you know, instead of saying, okay, I'm going to come consult you on impact reporting. I would say, I'm going to write you an impact report and here's what it looks like step by step.

[00:24:14] Which made my life much easier on the project management side and also made the deliverable much more clear, uh, to potential clients.

[00:24:21] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, okay. Another question for you, like based on your career, you've done a great job really knowing what you needed to do to make sure that you grew and ready for that next step, right?

[00:24:35] Like double majoring, getting your MBA, all that. So what do you continue to do now to make sure you grow as a leader?

[00:24:42] Grace Nelson: Absolutely. I mean, the number one thing is networking. I'm sure everybody says that. Um, I am a person who could sit in my office and write all day and be very happy. Um, and I, I do, I work with a team of contractors, but we, we all work from home.

[00:24:57] So to, keep that inflow of business coming where I'm not having to like cold call and, and make sales. Um, I just, I go out and I tell people, uh, what I do all the time. So I'm very specific about where I plug myself in. Um, and one of the things we talked about earlier, that social impact finance space.

[00:25:20] I mean, to me, that solves a huge problem that I'm trying to solve. And so I'm, I'm, really eager to, uh, position myself there. The other thing is that, um, if you were, you know, I'll offer a piece of unsolicited advice, um, to anyone listening, but, uh, one thing that is great to get yourself in that next position is volunteering, especially being on a, on a nonprofit board.

[00:25:44] Um, so I don't know. I, I'm. My whole background is in nonprofit philanthropy. I know a little bit about impact finance. I'm starting to volunteer in that space so that I can become an expert there as well. Um, so that, that's a way that we can give back to nonprofits and also a great way to learn about an industry or an area where we're not yet an expert.

[00:26:05] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, that's great advice. Um, okay. Let's, let's, uh, keep digging in on you there. Um, running your own business, especially a business like this, um, can overtake all of life. Basically.

[00:26:18] Grace Nelson: Absolutely.

[00:26:18] Sanjay Parekh: How do you, how do you think about that for yourself and, and establish those boundaries and manage the stress between having a business and your personal family life?

[00:26:28] And keeping that balance between those two things.

[00:26:30] Grace Nelson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I heard something on another, another podcast that I was listening to recently, where somebody was talking about this issue. And she was saying, you got to make your business work for you. Because if it's not, if your business is not a vehicle to help you achieve the things that you want to achieve in your life, you know, whether it is. Career wise or balance wise or whatever, you know, then you just have a job and you may as well just go get a job. Um, and so why, you know, why do your own taxes and all that? Um, and so, and I really, I mean, I really went through the journey. I had, I had a great year one. And then we grew very fast and I sort of took on too many things and, um, and overhired and made, made a lot of the mistakes that were, are pretty common.

[00:27:20] I would say, um, for first time entrepreneurs and I, I was truly miserable for a few years in the middle there. So I had to do a lot of self reflection. And sort of reset on the kind of life that I wanted for myself. And, um, that often means I, I sort of, I used to sort of prioritize my goals based on, okay, career goals.

[00:27:47] And then if time's left over, then personal goals. And then if time's left over after that, then extra, you know, whatever exercise or sleep. Um, and I realized. You know, actually sleep is probably the most important of all these things, so maybe I should put that first. And, uh, and I started to prioritize goals, um, even personal goals.

[00:28:06] Like, you know, I want to have a hobby. I play in a band and, and, and not feel like I had to put those goals lower than my professional goals because ultimately it's my life. So have my own business, then I want it to, to serve the plan that I have for my life.

[00:28:22] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, I love it. Um, okay. I'm going to dig into one thing that you said, um, and really get you to, to give the answer to this because you kind of touched on it. If you could go back in time and do one thing differently.

[00:28:34] Grace Nelson: Oh yeah.

[00:28:34] Sanjay Parekh: What is that thing that you do differently?

[00:28:36] Grace Nelson: Yeah. Um, the, the main mistake that I made after having a, a year, I, my first year of business, I made more money than I ever had. And I got really excited about how the business could grow. Okay. And where I should have hired incrementally, I hired a bunch of people at once and and I was not quite equipped as a leader to clarify their job roles. So I actually had really good people working with me. Um, but I, because Magenta's scope of work, because our offerings weren't that clear, everybody just sort of had a generalist job title, and they were all kind of doing the same thing that I was doing.

[00:29:21] And, and so it was like all of us with different jobs, and I was sort of the leader. And what I wish I had done instead, Um, and I've read a little bit about this. There's a book called, uh, Profit First. And, um, there's another one called Buy Back Your Time. And, and those both influenced how I, uh, now approach hiring.

[00:29:41] Which is, okay, I've got, I'm, I've, you know, I've got 100 percent of these tasks. I'm gonna take 10 percent of these tasks and offload it to someone who can do it cheaper and faster than I can. You know, okay, so now I've just got 90%. Okay, next 10%, I'm gonna offload that. And so You know, then if I had done it that way, I would have my, my revenue went up really fast, but my profit did not. If I had done it that way, then I would have seen my profit improving more, which is, is, is better for Grace.

[00:30:10] Sanjay Parekh: Right? Yeah. That, that makes sense. Um, okay. Last question for you. If you were talking to somebody who's thinking about doing what you did and taking that, into either a side hustle or a full time business.

[00:30:22] What advice would you give to them?

[00:30:24] Grace Nelson: Great question. And I'm, I'm actually going to, um, I, I think I'm going to offer some maybe counterintuitive advice. of the things that I did very well was each project that I had, even if it wasn't, I began to realize in the midst of all of my projects that not all of them were in my niche.

[00:30:49] And I found ways to use each project to tell the story that I wanted to tell. So even if I was, if I was, um, writing grants for an organization, um, I would take everything that I knew about that organization and I would put it into a one page impact report or a one page case for support so that I had something from all that work that I had done to demonstrate.

[00:31:17] What I now consider my niche, um, so I use something from every project, whether they paid me for that document or not. Because, you know, sometimes we're, we're encouraged to, okay, if you're writing grants, then, you know, upsell them on an impact report. I knew I wasn't going to upsell everyone. And so I was like, well, you know, I'm doing this work.

[00:31:38] I recognize that it's not exactly what I want to do anymore. Um, but I'm going to use this, this time and this energy and this relationship that I have with this client to tell my greater story. Um, sometimes I would get a client that, you know, I once had a client who wanted grant writing and, and then I said, I will only do the grant writing if you also have me do your case for support.

[00:32:01] So, um, using each relationship and each client, um, to, build your path, um, because, you know, there are times where it's not productive to say, to say no, um, and so when you, when you're in the stage of needing to generate revenue to keep your business going, just be strategic about using those opportunities, um, to get you to the point where you want to be.

[00:32:31] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, that's awesome. That's great advice. Um, okay, Grace, uh, thanks so much for being on. And where can our listeners. Find and connect with you and your band, uh, cause you slid that in there. So tell us where we can find both.

[00:32:44] Grace Nelson: Yes, absolutely. Okay. You can find me on LinkedIn. If you search Grace Nelson Magenta, you will, you'll find me there.

[00:32:53] Um, I'm also on Instagram and all that. My company Instagram is magenta strategy magenta, like the color strategy, like the word, my band Instagram is the front runners underscore band. So we're called the front runners. Uh, you can find us online.

[00:33:11] Sanjay Parekh: Awesome. Thanks so much for being on today.

[00:33:13] Grace Nelson: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

[00:33:19] Sanjay Parekh: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit Hiscox.com. And to hear more Side Hustle to Small Business stories, or share your own story, please visit Hiscox.com/side-hustle-to-small-business. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find out more about me at my website, SanjayParekh.com.